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datura wrote:It's because their economies aren't as advanced as the Uk and there is currently a surfeit of labour, living conditions are cheaper, houses etc. It's a stupid comparison to make.

That isn't true at all. Most of the economic models that we use today CAME from there, as well as Africa. The notion that we are somehow further advanced than them, when we borrow(steal) from them and their system is laughable. While housing values and inflation are rising at a massive rate, Vietnam, Japan, China all have rather booming economic times. Certainly, that wealth is centralized just like in most countries. Workers are exploited, all the same issues as we have in other countries.

But they work harder, they make better products for less, etc... all of the hybrid technology, clean energy, etc... all comes from Asia. But again, the workers are exploited everywhere. If you have Socialism, if you have Communism, if you have Democracy... whatever system you have there will be people preying upon the weak and under educated. I don't think that it's their own people who are exploiting them though, what would you like to wager... isn't it our corporations and shit that go in there to these countries and exploit them, rather than them exploiting themselves?

Ask yourself if we take the Nike Factory out of Indonesia, what will those workers in that factory be doing... not being exploited for sure. Also not eating and not earning a wage. Try and keep that in perspective.

Surface_Tension wrote:

datura wrote:It's because their economies aren't as advanced as the Uk and there is currently a surfeit of labour, living conditions are cheaper, houses etc. It's a stupid comparison to make.

That isn't true at all. Most of the economic models that we use today CAME from there, as well as Africa. The notion that we are somehow further advanced than them, when we borrow(steal) from them and their system is laughable. While housing values and inflation are rising at a massive rate, Vietnam, Japan, China all have rather booming economic times. Certainly, that wealth is centralized just like in most countries. Workers are exploited, all the same issues as we have in other countries.

But they work harder, they make better products for less, etc... all of the hybrid technology, clean energy, etc... all comes from Asia. But again, the workers are exploited everywhere. If you have Socialism, if you have Communism, if you have Democracy... whatever system you have there will be people preying upon the weak and under educated. I don't think that it's their own people who are exploiting them though, what would you like to wager... isn't it our corporations and shit that go in there to these countries and exploit them, rather than them exploiting themselves?

Ask yourself if we take the Nike Factory out of Indonesia, what will those workers in that factory be doing... not being exploited for sure. Also not eating and not earning a wage. Try and keep that in perspective.

I was talking advanced as in terms of economy which is a fact. We have gone through the various stages of economic growth and are now mainly a service industry led economy whereas the majority of Asian countries are still mainly reliant on manufacturing.

I think you need to study up on your economics before you continue posting your ill informed nonsense. Here is a start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-sector_hypothesis

Japan is a more mature economy, and they are far more aligned with the Western economies. China etc are growing quickly, but are still far behind the major Western economies in terms of maturity.

Surface_Tension wrote:I don't think that it's their own people who are exploiting them though, what would you like to wager... isn't it our corporations and shit that go in there to these countries and exploit them, rather than them exploiting themselves?

And this is the interesting debate. Our workforces organised and unionised during the boom of our Industrial Revolutions, as our economy grew, our worker conditions improved endlessly... it could be argued that as some of the poorer economies grow, especially the ones with massive elasticity (through population as much as anything else) like India which has made itself a major global power by offering reliable, outsourced work for a very reasonable price. They get to work in conditions which they find acceptable, they get paid a wage which they find acceptable and they get heavily invested in by the rest of the world. Seems like a pretty good deal all round to me.

I have a feeling that as India's economic strength grows more, it's workforce will become far more powerful and conditions, working hours and wages will naturally improve. It could well be that their companies then turn to another country with big plans to 'exploit'.

Obviously, it's all well and good when you're a country like India. With such a massive population and landmass, as long as it's organised, India shouldn't fail to have a good economy. The difficulty is surely in finding out if similarly 'positive' economic growth occurs in smaller countries, where companies can often wield far more 'real' power than the government... do those places get the chance to get organised or do they get buried in corporate enforcement, a la the Chicago Boys adventures in South America and Eastern Europe (although, heh, Poland will end up doing alright in the end). I tend to think that smaller countries are much more vulnerable to corporate control and more should be done on a global scale to make sure that things are being done properly... basic labour standards are essential to enforce, but each case must be properly means-tested... you can't have a minimum wage for Planet Earth or maximum working hours... it just doesn't work like that. It's harder to live in some places, so you have to work more to survive and globalisation provides work for these communities to survive - but it must be done ethically.

That was long..!

datura wrote:

Surface_Tension wrote:

datura wrote:It's because their economies aren't as advanced as the Uk and there is currently a surfeit of labour, living conditions are cheaper, houses etc. It's a stupid comparison to make.

That isn't true at all. Most of the economic models that we use today CAME from there, as well as Africa. The notion that we are somehow further advanced than them, when we borrow(steal) from them and their system is laughable. While housing values and inflation are rising at a massive rate, Vietnam, Japan, China all have rather booming economic times. Certainly, that wealth is centralized just like in most countries. Workers are exploited, all the same issues as we have in other countries.

But they work harder, they make better products for less, etc... all of the hybrid technology, clean energy, etc... all comes from Asia. But again, the workers are exploited everywhere. If you have Socialism, if you have Communism, if you have Democracy... whatever system you have there will be people preying upon the weak and under educated. I don't think that it's their own people who are exploiting them though, what would you like to wager... isn't it our corporations and shit that go in there to these countries and exploit them, rather than them exploiting themselves?

Ask yourself if we take the Nike Factory out of Indonesia, what will those workers in that factory be doing... not being exploited for sure. Also not eating and not earning a wage. Try and keep that in perspective.

I was talking advanced as in terms of economy which is a fact. We have gone through the various stages of economic growth and are now mainly a service industry led economy whereas the majority of Asian countries are still mainly reliant on manufacturing.

I think you need to study up on your economics before you continue posting your ill informed nonsense. Here is a start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-sector_hypothesis

Japan is a more mature economy, and they are far more aligned with the Western economies. China etc are growing quickly, but are still far behind the major Western economies in terms of maturity.

Interestingly enough every major economist says we need to be moving back toward our economic base of being a manufacturing economy. I'm sorry I don't buy into the ideology of "oh we're so much more advanced than they are, after all, they make all the products that we use" which is outdated thinking in my estimation. We simply aren't equipped to build things for ourselves anymore and are reliant on them for this manufacturing.

3rd world countries have better economic growth right now than either the US or Britain:

Vietnam, for instance:



Also their real estate markets, as well as service markets are also booming in the major regions of Vietnam. Just an example. For a 170sq m home you would pay on average $373k USD and rent that out in say, Ho Chi Minh city for roughly a 10% return on your investment. On average there inflation is stupidly low... can you say the same for the UK? USA? We have to consider that our very own models are broken. Quite simply all of the bankers who royally fucked the world economy are British banks. All of the powerful reserve banks.. British banks. So now I'm to take financial advice from someone who is bigging up that system?

The average person in China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia... they are all doing better by leaps and bounds this year than 8 years ago, unlike most British, American, South American countries...

Surface_Tension wrote: Interestingly enough every major economist says we need to be moving back toward our economic base of being a manufacturing economy. I'm sorry I don't buy into the ideology of "oh we're so much more advanced than they are, after all, they make all the products that we use" which is outdated thinking in my estimation. We simply aren't equipped to build things for ourselves anymore and are reliant on them for this manufacturing.

Can you cite this? I'm geniuninly curious since I've heard the opposite from a few sources. The Industrial Revolution was a needed step for our economy but going back to that point isn't realistic. Globalization has made foreign labor too cheap in comparison to domestic. If all the crap we had made in China were being made here we'd see a huge drop in wages or a huge increase in prices.

Also their real estate markets, as well as service markets are also booming in the major regions of Vietnam. Just an example. For a 170sq m home you would pay on average $373k USD and rent that out in say, Ho Chi Minh city for roughly a 10% return on your investment.

I want to remind you that not 40 years ago Vietnam was in the middle of a civil war and getting the ever loving fuck bombed out of it. If you think the fact that real estate is cheap for any other reason outside of the fact that Vietnam is a 3rd world country then you're mistaken.

The average person in China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia... they are all doing better by leaps and bounds this year than 8 years ago, unlike most British, American, South American countries...

Mmm yes China's economy is booming right along, like nothing is happening

Glorious Nippon! Rising sun of the East!

Just because their economies are doing better doesn't mean they are more advanced (the economy not the people, which you seem to fail to distinguish between! I can't work out if you are just myopic in your 'view' or just stupid.

We are more than capable of manufacturing, it just costs too much as labour here is far more expensive, as is land, raw materials etc, it doesn't make economic sense.

.spec wrote:

Surface_Tension wrote: Interestingly enough every major economist says we need to be moving back toward our economic base of being a manufacturing economy. I'm sorry I don't buy into the ideology of "oh we're so much more advanced than they are, after all, they make all the products that we use" which is outdated thinking in my estimation. We simply aren't equipped to build things for ourselves anymore and are reliant on them for this manufacturing.

Can you cite this? I'm geniuninly curious since I've heard the opposite from a few sources. The Industrial Revolution was a needed step for our economy but going back to that point isn't realistic. Globalization has made foreign labor too cheap in comparison to domestic. If all the crap we had made in China were being made here we'd see a huge drop in wages or a huge increase in prices.

Also their real estate markets, as well as service markets are also booming in the major regions of Vietnam. Just an example. For a 170sq m home you would pay on average $373k USD and rent that out in say, Ho Chi Minh city for roughly a 10% return on your investment.

I want to remind you that not 40 years ago Vietnam was in the middle of a civil war and getting the ever loving fuck bombed out of it. If you think the fact that real estate is cheap for any other reason outside of the fact that Vietnam is a 3rd world country then you're mistaken.

The average person in China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia... they are all doing better by leaps and bounds this year than 8 years ago, unlike most British, American, South American countries...

Mmm yes China's economy is booming right along, like nothing is happening

Glorious Nippon! Rising sun of the East!

Good points, finally someone else talking sense.

Surface_Tension wrote:Quite simply all of the bankers who royally fucked the world economy are British banks. All of the powerful reserve banks.. British banks. So now I'm to take financial advice from someone who is bigging up that system?

While I'm at it, it wasn't the 'British' banks who 'fucked' the economy, it was the US banks in the first place who offered the sub prime mortgages. The British banks just bought them off the US banks as they had spare cash and they could be very profitable as the interest rates were extortionate.

you're lost in details imho

sum guyz chopped a large slice of the world public money and shoved it in their pocket, watching now how the weakest themselves created lose the struggle for survival, much to their satisfaction again

and i also suppose they have a lot of fun watching you still debating the fake social and political paradigms they created exactly in order to steal us and control us

if you keep discussing like the bloody tv, making your own talk shows fox news stylee it's gonna be just for their fun

i still think it's time for you to wake up, give up on the addiction to consuming crap and hit them where they hurt: pockets

cuz in da streets not a chance... have you seen what they've prepared for you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgG45Lvhow0

no rally or molotovs will save us from the only 2 options we have: a responsible and wise, but free, look on life or enslavement. that's all we got, and nothing else

alien pimp wrote:no rally or molotovs will save us

agreed

from the only 2 options we have: a responsible and wise, but free, look on life or enslavement. that's all we got, and nothing else

but what's the second option?

SD5 wrote:

from the only 2 options we have: a responsible and wise, but free, look on life or enslavement. that's all we got, and nothing else

but what's the second option?

usually what follows after the word "or"

alien pimp wrote:

SD5 wrote:

from the only 2 options we have: a responsible and wise, but free, look on life or enslavement. that's all we got, and nothing else

but what's the second option?

usually what follows after the word "or"

fuck me, I'm going blind
I cain't see an or.
Does that mean there's no option but to be responsible and wise?

Djprojekts wrote:

dubluke wrote:

Djprojekts wrote:I live in a area full of these foreigners and i cant stand them, id like a english country full of english people not multi cultural people, more and more of these goons are walking about, claiming benefits, shagging the fat ulgy women and marry them just to get visa. Dont u lot undastand that sooner or later these fuckers will take over.

Whens the last time u walked into a corner shop and got served by english people??

oh for fuck's sake, what reason do you have to not stand them other than that they are slightly different to you? have they done anything that personally affects you? who the fuck cares what race the person who serves you in a cornershop is? if we didn't live in a multi cultural society i think we'd have a pretty boring time, as english culture isn't exactly inspiring. intolerant twat

Take australia for example, clean country, friendly people, good government, they dont start wars for no reason, come on, its like heaven to me.

australia is a deeply multicultural society, taking over 100,000 immigrants per year. melbourne has the largest greek population anywhere outside of greece, and we have an enormous south-east asian population in particular. so how's about you don't fucking come here.

Djprojekts wrote:

I understand why these strikes are happening ,and believe the whole of britain should be supporting them. I work in lincolnshire in the agriculture sector and since this goverment opened its doors to foreign labour, the amount of local people in the industry has seriously declined.We want to do the work, but, have been slowly pushed aside to make way for cheaper labour, and cheap labour it is.We get branded as racists because we are fed up with it. Its simple, british jobs for british people.

THIS, I MEAN THIS IS ABSOULTLY SPOT ON!!!!!!

why don't they work for the same price? because they don't want to? i wonder who sets the price ... oh, it's the british bosses, and you're the one reaping the benefits through cheaper everything. you'd be whinging and moaning if prices for everything quadrupled overnight because salaries doubled in order to give jobs to less-qualified idiots. jog on.

Don't blame the immigrant workers for wanting a better life. Undercut them by working harder, for cheaper than they do.

You can't do anything about it. It's not their fault, and their situation is directly a result of US and British economic policies that enslave and destroy the global economy. Frankly we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Djprojekts wrote:

I understand why these strikes are happening ,and believe the whole of britain should be supporting them. I work in lincolnshire in the agriculture sector and since this goverment opened its doors to foreign labour, the amount of local people in the industry has seriously declined.We want to do the work, but, have been slowly pushed aside to make way for cheaper labour, and cheap labour it is.We get branded as racists because we are fed up with it. Its simple, british jobs for british people.

well, next time watch out for your leaders to not allow splitting europe in half, making nations a gift to communism, then those people might enjoy it more at home
education works as well, because you import a lot of intelligence as well, which eventually starts own business there and then don't mind them if they hire their whole family instead of you
you can send the immigrants home, but then your products won't be so profitable and they'll fail competing the cheaper ones, which you'll prefer again because your leaders stole your money while you were busy making fun of 'conspiracy fools'
moron!

datura wrote:

Surface_Tension wrote:Quite simply all of the bankers who royally fucked the world economy are British banks. All of the powerful reserve banks.. British banks. So now I'm to take financial advice from someone who is bigging up that system?

While I'm at it, it wasn't the 'British' banks who 'fucked' the economy, it was the US banks in the first place who offered the sub prime mortgages. The British banks just bought them off the US banks as they had spare cash and they could be very profitable as the interest rates were extortionate.

Yes because the Federal Reserve Banking system isn't funded by BRITISH BANKS.... controlled by private British banks.... etc.

?

who said US is the horse and UK is the carriage?

alien pimp wrote:

Djprojekts wrote:

I understand why these strikes are happening ,and believe the whole of britain should be supporting them. I work in lincolnshire in the agriculture sector and since this goverment opened its doors to foreign labour, the amount of local people in the industry has seriously declined.

you can send the immigrants home, but then your products won't be so profitable and they'll fail competing the cheaper ones, which you'll prefer again because your leaders stole your money while you were busy making fun of 'conspiracy fools'
moron!

So workers worried about their livelihoods
and prepared to take strike action
are morons.

Is that what you believe, Pimp?

i believe you're like a skin disease!