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ehbes wrote:I'd quite like to live in a Spanish villa on the beach for free. But I'm pretty sure that's not how it works... Anywhere

Well moving from a hut in Eritrea to a three storey townhouse equates to that surely?

If Britain had a laissez faire approach to migration pretty soon we'd get swamped, it's not about being racist or xenophobic.

jaydot wrote:Immigration is good in moderation but we're not seeing that in the UK.

A housing crisis which corresponded with a surge in migration, over-stretched public services, HIV, ebola and other diseases being bought in from various places, school places at a premium, amanual jobs market which is largely monopolised by Eastern Europeans/capitalised upon by unscrupulous business owners who want cheap labout having caused low unemployment-and the example I was talking about last night on Facebook-private landlords renting properties for migrant's housing benefit-remember when it was pointed out in the previous UKIP thread that there's not a social housing crisis caused by immigrants? Well to a degree there is but the unseen figures are the ones where the private landlords are renting houses out to migrants for their housing benefit and I've delivered to places where there are Romanian families and there's at loads in the household. I allude to the Romany gypsies again (not to stigmatise) but they beg, borrow and steal literally, petty theft basically. And I talked about them congregating in large groups in the street and in a local park where they've basically made the place look a mess. They're largely unskilled-I can't think of any concievable job niches they occupy-and a lot of them are just freeloading. Same with certain migrants of African descent-although my qualm here is how come (Somalians and Eritreans this time) they can get given a brand new three storey town house (I'm referring to the houses on the old Manchester City stadium site) when I'd have to wait 3-4 years for an old flat in a run down area? See if everyone had a mind set where we thought "Immigrants are human so should be treated with dignity" I sort of agree but you have to put your own family/yourself first and housing/school place/GP/job market etc etc.I'm not voting UKIP btw I'm not voting at all....

Speaking of your fb comment I wanna quote something if you don't mind (you seem to be quite proud of your comments because nobody dares to challenge them so I'm sure you don't)...

What is happening whether you deny it or not is ordinary folk (that's the working and lower-middle classes) are getting doubly fucked by the upper middle classes (bankers and elite politicians) and under-cut on school places, social housing, increased taxes to cover public service expenditure) by mass uncapped immigration. I'd like to hear a decent riposte to that;

You make a statement. You provide no references, no research, no evidence, no nothing. You claim it to be fact "whether you deny it or not". Do you really think such statements deserve any form of response whatsoever? Honestly if I said "Whether you deny it or not, God exists." would you go 'yeah fair point' or would you go 'you've provided no evidence, theres no reason for me to believe this apart from you saying so.. I'm just going to discard that comment is pure nonsense." I think you'd choose the second, just as most people do with your relentless dribble.

You absolutely LOVE to just sit and make statements. Foreigners do this, it puts a strain on this, it means less jobs for these, it makes it hard to do this, these people suffer. Give some fucking evidence to your statements. Give it ANY form of fucking substance in order for somebody to have an intelligent conversation and debate with you.. because all you give people is enough to have a dumb arse argument which is just bickering.

You're so stubborn in believing immigration is bad because you seem to see a couple of them acting like bad citizens.. but have you bothered to ever check if your views tally up to reality? Have you bothered to read the other side of the argument?

Google "immigration benefits in the UK" and have a read of any of them. You'll probably discard it all as "leftist propaganda" but at least have a read, if you wanna stick to your guns.. quote some of it here with a good solid counter argument with some form of evidence to back up your statement.

Granted you can pretty much get evidence to back up any statement, but its a lot better than a poor attempt at rhetoric.

You could try to refute my points

The audacity it takes to say that some guy in eretrea is planning something around your ends is completely ridiculous

lol gonna give this one a miss

good for you mason this is straight up bad bad

ehbes wrote:

OGLemon wrote:The only issue I really care about is advancing humanity to higher levels of development. In other words, advancing technology and making production methods more efficient. It just so happens that I think communism will be the best system. Why? I think that humans work better when they are equal, in terms of social relations.

yup. I just don't see Capitalism and intellectual property playing nice down the road

down the road? when have they ever tbh

also holy shit "HIV, ebola and other diseases being bought" jaydot please fuck off u giant prick

Phigure wrote:

ehbes wrote:

OGLemon wrote:The only issue I really care about is advancing humanity to higher levels of development. In other words, advancing technology and making production methods more efficient. It just so happens that I think communism will be the best system. Why? I think that humans work better when they are equal, in terms of social relations.

yup. I just don't see Capitalism and intellectual property playing nice down the road

down the road? when have they ever tbh

also holy shit "HIV, ebola and other diseases being bought" jaydot please fuck off u giant prick

Phigure wrote:

ehbes wrote:

OGLemon wrote:The only issue I really care about is advancing humanity to higher levels of development. In other words, advancing technology and making production methods more efficient. It just so happens that I think communism will be the best system. Why? I think that humans work better when they are equal, in terms of social relations.

yup. I just don't see Capitalism and intellectual property playing nice down the road

down the road? when have they ever tbh

worded it wrong.

I see it getting very sticky down the road

but whether you deny it or not.

jaydot wrote:A housing crisis which corresponded with a surge in migration

The housing crisis is pretty much solely down to not building enough houses and allowing the housing market to become completely impenetrable to normal people. This is not because of immigration. Mainly it's because we have built fuck-all houses for the last couple of decades and have allowed our social housing stock to be sold off. A great many [British, you'll be pleased to know] people made fortunes from buying their council houses and then using the capital to become Buy-To-Let investors eventually pricing "normal" people who want to buy a house and actually live in it, whether British or otherwise out of the market entirely.

Curbing immigration to solve a housing crisis is pretty simplistic and short-sighted when you actually look at the figures. Less than 3% of Britain is built upon. We are not full. We need HOUSES.

, over-stretched public services,

Nope. It's been shown time and time again that immigrants into Britain create a NET GAIN for the public purse. They are not only paying their way, they're paying some of (y)ours too. The country is richer for having migrants. This is a matter of public record. I don't know if you work, but if you don't, a decent portion of your benefit is coming from taxation of immigrants.

The NHS was built on Afro-Caribbean skill and labour and survives through Asian labour. Curb immigration and those same public services will crumble before your very eyes.

HIV, ebola and other diseases being bought in from various places

Wow. The only people brought in with Ebola were British nurses helping in Africa. This is just scaremongering.

Let's blame the sick and desperate for our problems. That sounds like a really good idea.

school places at a premium

Yes, we need to build more schools. Hopefully with some of the extra cash we have from immigrants.

amanual jobs market which is largely monopolised by Eastern Europeans/capitalised upon by unscrupulous business owners who want cheap labout having caused low unemployment-and the example I was talking about last night on Facebook

This is true, but it's not immigration's fault. It's the fault of our labour laws. Solution is a higher minimum wage and better statuatory working conditions. Again, it's not a very effective idea to blame the bottom of society (manual labourers working for a pittance) for all our problems - how about the conservative economics (of which UKIP wholly subscribe) that allows is to happen?

private landlords renting properties for migrant's housing benefit-remember when it was pointed out in the previous UKIP thread that there's not a social housing crisis caused by immigrants? Well to a degree there is but the unseen figures are the ones where the private landlords are renting houses out to migrants for their housing benefit and I've delivered to places where there are Romanian families and there's at loads in the household.

What are people supposed to spend their housing benefit on if not housing?

We need to make sure rental agreements are fair and build more houses.

I allude to the Romany gypsies again (not to stigmatise) but they beg, borrow and steal literally, petty theft basically. And I talked about them congregating in large groups in the street and in a local park where they've basically made the place look a mess. They're largely unskilled-I can't think of any concievable job niches they occupy-and a lot of them are just freeloading. Same with certain migrants of African descent

not to stigmatise
not to stigmatise
not to stigmatise

All you're doing is stigmatising and generalising. You've bought the Nationalist spiel that has conned poor people into hating their neighbours since time immemorial. Turn the poor against the poor and they won't bother the rich. Stop falling for the same old okeydoke and realise that real villians don't work 50 hours a week for less than minimum wage. Real villians don't pack their entire family up and travel half the globe for a chance of a better life.

Real villians exploit the fears of the weakest members of society and turn them against each other. You're letting them win.

Stop.

I like that second to last paragraph. Sums up nicely what I was going to say.

ehbes wrote:I'd quite like to live in a Spanish villa on the beach for free. But I'm pretty sure that's not how it works... Anywhere

That's exactly how it works in Spain

Move there, get a free villa.

If you're a real smug tnuc about it, you can post pictures of it repeatedly on social media.

Muncey wrote:

jaydot wrote:Immigration is good in moderation but we're not seeing that in the UK.

A housing crisis which corresponded with a surge in migration, over-stretched public services, HIV, ebola and other diseases being bought in from various places, school places at a premium, amanual jobs market which is largely monopolised by Eastern Europeans/capitalised upon by unscrupulous business owners who want cheap labout having caused low unemployment-and the example I was talking about last night on Facebook-private landlords renting properties for migrant's housing benefit-remember when it was pointed out in the previous UKIP thread that there's not a social housing crisis caused by immigrants? Well to a degree there is but the unseen figures are the ones where the private landlords are renting houses out to migrants for their housing benefit and I've delivered to places where there are Romanian families and there's at loads in the household. I allude to the Romany gypsies again (not to stigmatise) but they beg, borrow and steal literally, petty theft basically. And I talked about them congregating in large groups in the street and in a local park where they've basically made the place look a mess. They're largely unskilled-I can't think of any concievable job niches they occupy-and a lot of them are just freeloading. Same with certain migrants of African descent-although my qualm here is how come (Somalians and Eritreans this time) they can get given a brand new three storey town house (I'm referring to the houses on the old Manchester City stadium site) when I'd have to wait 3-4 years for an old flat in a run down area? See if everyone had a mind set where we thought "Immigrants are human so should be treated with dignity" I sort of agree but you have to put your own family/yourself first and housing/school place/GP/job market etc etc.I'm not voting UKIP btw I'm not voting at all....

Speaking of your fb comment I wanna quote something if you don't mind (you seem to be quite proud of your comments because nobody dares to challenge them so I'm sure you don't)...

What is happening whether you deny it or not is ordinary folk (that's the working and lower-middle classes) are getting doubly fucked by the upper middle classes (bankers and elite politicians) and under-cut on school places, social housing, increased taxes to cover public service expenditure) by mass uncapped immigration. I'd like to hear a decent riposte to that;

You make a statement. You provide no references, no research, no evidence, no nothing. You claim it to be fact "whether you deny it or not". Do you really think such statements deserve any form of response whatsoever? Honestly if I said "Whether you deny it or not, God exists." would you go 'yeah fair point' or would you go 'you've provided no evidence, theres no reason for me to believe this apart from you saying so.. I'm just going to discard that comment is pure nonsense." I think you'd choose the second, just as most people do with your relentless dribble.

You absolutely LOVE to just sit and make statements. Foreigners do this, it puts a strain on this, it means less jobs for these, it makes it hard to do this, these people suffer. Give some fucking evidence to your statements. Give it ANY form of fucking substance in order for somebody to have an intelligent conversation and debate with you.. because all you give people is enough to have a dumb arse argument which is just bickering.

You're so stubborn in believing immigration is bad because you seem to see a couple of them acting like bad citizens.. but have you bothered to ever check if your views tally up to reality? Have you bothered to read the other side of the argument?

Google "immigration benefits in the UK" and have a read of any of them. You'll probably discard it all as "leftist propaganda" but at least have a read, if you wanna stick to your guns.. quote some of it here with a good solid counter argument with some form of evidence to back up your statement.

Granted you can pretty much get evidence to back up any statement, but its a lot better than a poor attempt at rhetoric.

Yeah but I heard the Romanians were killing swans

i hope so

swans are like the gators of the north

Geese are worse than swans IMO

There wouldn't be as much ebola in housing projects if not for geese

OrionsBelm wrote: Nope. It's been shown time and time again that immigrants into Britain create a NET GAIN for the public purse. They are not only paying their way, they're paying some of (y)ours too. The country is richer for having migrants. This is a matter of public record. I don't know if you work, but if you don't, a decent portion of your benefit is coming from taxation of immigrants.

um m8 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... llion.html

Mason, I may dress like a stuffy old white guy but you're far worse. You think like em.

mason666 wrote: um m8 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... llion.html

Immigrants who came to live in Britain from outside Europe cost the public purse nearly £120 billion over 17 years, a new report has shown.

Experts from University College London also said native Britons made a negative contribution of £591 billion over the 17 years – because of the country’s massive deficit.

Not quite sure what point this article is trying to make? Brits are unable to run their country without a massive deficit? (just like everyone else, mind)