Dubstepforum.com

oooh i forgot about that

i knew there was a dark side behind all the friendly smiles and aboots

Phigure wrote:

rayman612 wrote:how can u say skeng doesnt get ppl going...

also hate they act like all bro-producers from america

i hate the news

yeah, i mean let's just look at the whole circus gang for example, right? they're all UK dudes. not to mention many more

but to be fair, the vast majority of brostep producers and fans are americans. they're the ones who kicked it off, made it big, and made it the monstrosity it is (inb4 spongebob started brostep... it was excision with no escape in 07 - before spongebob)

spongebob was around in 06 wasnt it? (im talking dubs, not releases)

Nevalo wrote:

Phigure wrote:

rayman612 wrote:how can u say skeng doesnt get ppl going...

also hate they act like all bro-producers from america

i hate the news

yeah, i mean let's just look at the whole circus gang for example, right? they're all UK dudes. not to mention many more

but to be fair, the vast majority of brostep producers and fans are americans. they're the ones who kicked it off, made it big, and made it the monstrosity it is (inb4 spongebob started brostep... it was excision with no escape in 07 - before spongebob)

spongebob was around in 06 wasnt it? (im talking dubs, not releases)

true true

but beyond just release dates, i think spongebob still gets into a different tear out sound... spongebob is just plain crazy... excision on the other hand had a very mechanical sound, one that eventually turned into the whole robots thing with later excision and datsik productions, which led to everything we see (hear) nowadays like screeches and yois

id say spongebob was the tune that made (already notable) 'producers' get a lot wobblier (which was the tearout side at the time)

then excision & datsik came through a year or so later and started the whole robot-esque sound... and i think this is where a lot of people started producing, after hearing tunes like swagga, literally just trying to out-filth next man (ie brostep inception)

i think thats actually pretty fair to say. nothing really wrong with the wobbly stuff anyways, the problem is just that the bro producers picked up the wobble

LOL

then they found the bitcrusher & it was all over rover

Phigure wrote: but beyond just release dates, i think spongebob still gets into a different tear out sound... spongebob is just plain crazy... excision on the other hand had a very mechanical sound, one that eventually turned into the whole robots thing with later excision and datsik productions, which led to everything we see (hear) nowadays like screeches and yois

What's funny is Excision put out one of the best dubstep mixes in 2006 called Darkside Dubstep with tracks from Ramadanman, MRK1, Distance, Vexd, Loefah... Total polar opposite of what he puts out now, but people change etc... Still, I'm not into his tunes now, but that mix was huge and I still keep it in the car.

wormcode wrote:

Phigure wrote: but beyond just release dates, i think spongebob still gets into a different tear out sound... spongebob is just plain crazy... excision on the other hand had a very mechanical sound, one that eventually turned into the whole robots thing with later excision and datsik productions, which led to everything we see (hear) nowadays like screeches and yois

What's funny is Excision put out one of the best dubstep mixes in 2006 called Darkside Dubstep with tracks from Ramadanman, MRK1, Distance, Vexd, Loefah... Total polar opposite of what he puts out now, but people change etc... Still, I'm not into his tunes now, but that mix was huge and I still keep it in the car.

i know

that's the mix that got me into dubstep. some dude on a forum i was on posted it in early 07 and that was it for me

shambhala mix as well

them wrote:

Sonika wrote:HE CUT HIS HAIR?????

THATS IT I QUIT DUBSTEP

Quitstep?

The dubstep/brostep thing in the US remind me the history of disco music: initially a very underground movement, mainly consisted of gay black men, italoamericans djs, portoricans, drug addicteds and social rejects - there still were huge racial bias and other social dynamics that is not easy to explain with my crappy english but i'm sure many of you already know the background of disco ; so it was excellent music, brillantly played by session musician and raw, not accademical nor classical orchestras and with real, quality singers and meaningful lyrics, stuff like "MFSB's Love Is The Message" or "Harold Melvin's The Love i Lost" obviously, but also tons of more underground stuff which you can't find in those gazillions of lucrative 'best of disco compilations". It was love-centric but not in the cheesy way of pop music, instead more inspired by soul and classic r&b, but then become this very bad, poppy, pointless commercial monster with the likes of bee gees, village people, donna summer, kc & the sunshine band and, above all, that "saturday night fever" movie nonsense, because the majors and hollywood bloodysucking snakes wanted to sell this music to late to the party white people too, and american white people didn't like raw, funky, black disco music, so they heavily changed the rules of disco music Also, in the disco scene there weren't superstars / TV show esibitions / gadgets etc. so the greedy music industry wanted to use their already well structured 'rockstar model', creating big, no scruples, marketing teams and some nice faces for the white market, so john travolta character was born (the movie compilation sales were UNREAL), previously decent vocal-pop group bee gees now was wearing bizarre clown dresses, many manufactured bands with strong images were born, like village people and so on.

Disco in the US was HUGE (think sk****ex and brostep x100 !!), it was the bigger genre ever before the hip hop revolution.. only popular country music has surpassed its numbers, it was a fat cash-cow with insane moneymaking behind, and all those forgottern popstar/rockstar were jumping on the bandwagon making awful disco, trying to be relevant again (a-là korn ) . The greedy music/movie industry raped the shit out of disco, gladly forgetting its noble, fraternity-tinged roots and the clearly dj oriented scene, sucking every blood drop till it logically died (sadly also the AIDS discovery was an important factor due to the steam bath scandal and some big djs involved).

From its remains, after some years, were borning very different type of house music, some of them still very relevant

in the 80s: chicagohouse / jerseysound / garage[american] / deephouse[early melodic style] /detroithouse /acidhouse etc.

in the 90s: funkyhouse /soulful /discohouse/ tribal-house/prog-house /frenchhouse / filter-house / garagehouse[UK] / deephouse[current european chill/chord style] / ghetto etc.

In the 2000s fads like "electrohouse" (2005-currently roughly) "tech-house" (2003-currently) aren't house at all in my opinion, the first one in its early manifestations was slighty acid house-influenced, whereas the second one is clearly closer to techno (i mean classic tech house in the style of extrawelt, not the current beatport nonsense) yet they are using the name. Some new tech-house developments, like tribal or balearic, are a bit inspired by some 90s house subgenres, whereas electro-house, since NI Massive became overused and since Ed-Banger released more hard-sounding complex stuff, is a totally different thing now, is not house, and is not electro (i mean classic 808 electro), so you can see the whole scenario as a very chaotic mess!. Some of the early NI Massive stuff was called "fidget", i honestly don't know why the name electro-house is still used, cuz i don't follow commercial music, some of the very early electro house basslines (such as tiga's pleasure from the bass or the more straighforward trentemoller rmx to name a few) were clearly influenced by 80s chicago house releases, so the name electro house could sounds legit due do the house derivations . But what about the current tween oriented in your pimply face pop electro house, such as zedd and deadmau5? Is not house at all, they - both producers and consumers - barely know what real house is!

Back to the current house scene, well, beatport and mainstream compilation scenes, such as the generic deep house or the fashion oriented hed kandi stuff are very formulaic; nothing but background lounge music; the current semi-underground scene, like hot creations / crosstown rebel release is very fresh and quality stuff but already saturated; the detroit sample-based soul stuff like moodymann / parrish / pittman / glenn undgrnd is always good but very little evolutions since 1997 and big speculations about limited overpriced releses so it's a nichè, in the other side we have tons of underground quality labels and artists like simoncino, 100 % silk etc. releasing chicago house and (US)garage in its purest forms, but often with very little innovation, following the retro-trend which is recurrent in all the major genres right now, so it is both a good thing (cuz is good music) and a bad thing (because no evolution / innovation is involved at all). Obviously there are many other subcultures, genres and movements in house music, like italodisco influenced stuff, the nu jazz sound, disco edits, NY stuff, MAW style, the always underrated beatdown, live band etc. but is not the right place / moment to talk about house music. We are talking of correlations between disco and dubstep.

Nowadays disco is mainly remembered as the "'bee gees style" thing, a dead scene, but we all know these are bullshit, real disco is a totally other thing, and its spirit lives in (real) house music. So brostep is following a very similar route and, like disco, is literally EVERYWHERE (commercial exposition, bandwagonism, greedy moneymaking, majors involved, advertising etc.) and the fad will die soon, probably in 2013-2014 (am i too optimist? ) . Chances are that, just as house music, real dubsteppers will come with something new, starting again the underground route, and old brosteppers too but with more mainstream sounds influenced by their previous productions or, more likely, jumping on the next bandwagon, so we'll probably have a very subgeneres-busy and enigmatic (like house) post post-dubstep scene in some years. I know we already have post-dubstep / post-juke808 / dungeon evolutions etc. but they are still too much attached to the past, they aren't fresh enough. I think Kryptic Minds 2009 output is the more important innovation in the dubstep scene and the fact they were dnb producers and never listened dubstep besides a few tunes is very significative and it reflects a certain lack of innovation by many already established dubstep producers, i also thought could be the future of the genre, but i was wrong, cuz is taking the same way of neurofunk (very technical but generic music and often souless with tons of similar sounding producers and very little ideas). Don't get me wrong, i like some neurofunk and is very efficient in the dance, but where is the future in a style that is the same since 2005 ? 2000's Autechre output(Confield, Untilted, Draft 7.30), is the future burn in music, still after many years, not a bunch of resampled reeces. Same thing for bro stuff and a large part of KM ripoffs Schackleton is a beast, amazing innovative artist, but sadly his sound, just like many forward thinking 80s postindustrial music that i love or his 'father' muslimgauze, as amazing could be, is too esoteric and mental for create some bigger scene, it's a 100 % underground thing, period


so in my opinion:

disco->commercial disco -> unreal mainstream success and extreme oversaturation till the inevitable death -> HOUSE
dubstep-> brostep->unreal mainstream success and extreme oversaturation till the inevitable death -> NEW BIG SCENE


the best is yet to come

It's a constant cycle;

New Genre > Underground > Crossover potential > Big event/tune/radio show breaks it > Becomes commercial > More followers > Saturation of sound > Purists don't like it > Sound splinters > New Genre

wub wrote:It's a constant cycle;

New Genre > Underground > Crossover potential > Big event/tune/radio show breaks it > Becomes commercial > More followers > Saturation of sound > Purists don't like it > Sound splinters > New Genre

yeah, pretty basic, but this time is a slighty different thing, because brostep is TOO BIG, really TOO BIG. is not one of these brief scenes / genres / styles that follow this cycle, is a monster, is mainstream disco 2.0, not the average big beat bandwagon or roman flugel's "geth noch" lead.

TheWallOfSacrifice wrote:

wub wrote:It's a constant cycle;

New Genre > Underground > Crossover potential > Big event/tune/radio show breaks it > Becomes commercial > More followers > Saturation of sound > Purists don't like it > Sound splinters > New Genre

yeah, pretty basic, but this time is a slighty different thing, because brostep is TOO BIG, literally TOO BIG. is not one of these brief scenes / genres / styles that follow this cycle, is a monster, is mainstream disco 2.0, not the average big beat bandwagon or roman flugel's geth noch? ripoffs.

Is it too much trouble just to ask that you support the music that you do like, keep an open mind and not concern yourself with that which you don't like?

garethom wrote:

TheWallOfSacrifice wrote:

wub wrote:It's a constant cycle;

New Genre > Underground > Crossover potential > Big event/tune/radio show breaks it > Becomes commercial > More followers > Saturation of sound > Purists don't like it > Sound splinters > New Genre

yeah, pretty basic, but this time is a slighty different thing, because brostep is TOO BIG, literally TOO BIG. is not one of these brief scenes / genres / styles that follow this cycle, is a monster, is mainstream disco 2.0, not the average big beat bandwagon or roman flugel's geth noch? ripoffs.

Is it too much trouble just to ask that you support the music that you do like, keep an open mind and not concern yourself with that which you don't like?

yeah man, it's what i already do, mine is just an analysis about the (many) brostep / disco similarities.
next time i will post something in news discussions like "BIG TUNE" or "MASSIVE TRACK" if you prefer

wolf89 wrote:The Bug's tunes are rowdy as fuck. Get's everyone going

(actually the last time I saw the bug play was the most amount of fights I've seen breakout at one night)

Weird was just listening to a mix and The bug comes in as I read that page
Posion Dart and Skeng. Man, Skeng turns clubs/night into something else when that comes in

TheWallOfSacrifice wrote:because brostep is TOO BIG, really TOO BIG. is not one of these brief scenes / genres / styles that follow this cycle, is a monster, is mainstream disco 2.0

Honestly can't see what you're getting at here...this is like a dark garage fan saying that dubstep is too big.

Wall of Sacrifice? More like Wall of Text.



I hate myself.

TheWallOfSacrifice wrote:The dubstep/brostep thing in the US remind me the history of disco music: initially a very underground movement, mainly consisted of gay black men, italoamericans djs, portoricans, drug addicteds and social rejects - there still were huge racial bias and other social dynamics that is not easy to explain with my crappy english but i'm sure many of you already know the background of disco ; so it was excellent music, brillantly played by session musician and raw, not accademical nor classical orchestras and with real, quality singers and meaningful lyrics, stuff like "MFSB's Love Is The Message" or "Harold Melvin's The Love i Lost" obviously, but also tons of more underground stuff which you can't find in those gazillions of lucrative 'best of disco compilations". It was love-centric but not in the cheesy way of pop music, instead more inspired by soul and classic r&b, but then become this very bad, poppy, pointless commercial monster with the likes of bee gees, village people, donna summer, kc & the sunshine band and, above all, that "saturday night fever" movie nonsense, because the majors and hollywood bloodysucking snakes wanted to sell this music to late to the party white people too, and american white people didn't like raw, funky, black disco music, so they heavily changed the rules of disco music Also, in the disco scene there weren't superstars / TV show esibitions / gadgets etc. so the greedy music industry wanted to use their already well structured 'rockstar model', creating big, no scruples, marketing teams and some nice faces for the white market, so john travolta character was born (the movie compilation sales were UNREAL), previously decent vocal-pop group bee gees now was wearing bizarre clown dresses, many manufactured bands with strong images were born, like village people and so on.

Disco in the US was HUGE (think sk****ex and brostep x100 !!), it was the bigger genre ever before the hip hop revolution.. only popular country music has surpassed its numbers, it was a fat cash-cow with insane moneymaking behind, and all those forgottern popstar/rockstar were jumping on the bandwagon making awful disco, trying to be relevant again (a-là korn ) . The greedy music/movie industry raped the shit out of disco, gladly forgetting its noble, fraternity-tinged roots and the clearly dj oriented scene, sucking every blood drop till it logically died (sadly also the AIDS discovery was an important factor due to the steam bath scandal and some big djs involved).

From its remains, after some years, were borning very different type of house music, some of them still very relevant

in the 80s: chicagohouse / jerseysound / garage[american] / deephouse[early melodic style] /detroithouse /acidhouse etc.

in the 90s: funkyhouse /soulful /discohouse/ tribal-house/prog-house /frenchhouse / filter-house / garagehouse[UK] / deephouse[current european chill/chord style] / ghetto etc.

In the 2000s fads like "electrohouse" (2005-currently roughly) "tech-house" (2003-currently) aren't house at all in my opinion, the first one in its early manifestations was slighty acid house-influenced, whereas the second one is clearly closer to techno (i mean classic tech house in the style of extrawelt, not the current beatport nonsense) yet they are using the name. Some new tech-house developments, like tribal or balearic, are a bit inspired by some 90s house subgenres, whereas electro-house, since NI Massive became overused and since Ed-Banger released more hard-sounding complex stuff, is a totally different thing now, is not house, and is not electro (i mean classic 808 electro), so you can see the whole scenario as a very chaotic mess!. Some of the early NI Massive stuff was called "fidget", i honestly don't know why the name electro-house is still used, cuz i don't follow commercial music, some of the very early electro house basslines (such as tiga's pleasure from the bass or the more straighforward trentemoller rmx to name a few) were clearly influenced by 80s chicago house releases, so the name electro house could sounds legit due do the house derivations . But what about the current tween oriented in your pimply face pop electro house, such as zedd and deadmau5? Is not house at all, they - both producers and consumers - barely know what real house is!

Back to the current house scene, well, beatport and mainstream compilation scenes, such as the generic deep house or the fashion oriented hed kandi stuff are very formulaic; nothing but background lounge music; the current semi-underground scene, like hot creations / crosstown rebel release is very fresh and quality stuff but already saturated; the detroit sample-based soul stuff like moodymann / parrish / pittman / glenn undgrnd is always good but very little evolutions since 1997 and big speculations about limited overpriced releses so it's a nichè, in the other side we have tons of underground quality labels and artists like simoncino, 100 % silk etc. releasing chicago house and (US)garage in its purest forms, but often with very little innovation, following the retro-trend which is recurrent in all the major genres right now, so it is both a good thing (cuz is good music) and a bad thing (because no evolution / innovation is involved at all). Obviously there are many other subcultures, genres and movements in house music, like italodisco influenced stuff, the nu jazz sound, disco edits, NY stuff, MAW style, the always underrated beatdown, live band etc. but is not the right place / moment to talk about house music. We are talking of correlations between disco and dubstep.

Nowadays disco is mainly remembered as the "'bee gees style" thing, a dead scene, but we all know these are bullshit, real disco is a totally other thing, and its spirit lives in (real) house music. So brostep is following a very similar route and, like disco, is literally EVERYWHERE (commercial exposition, bandwagonism, greedy moneymaking, majors involved, advertising etc.) and the fad will die soon, probably in 2013-2014 (am i too optimist? ) . Chances are that, just as house music, real dubsteppers will come with something new, starting again the underground route, and old brosteppers too but with more mainstream sounds influenced by their previous productions or, more likely, jumping on the next bandwagon, so we'll probably have a very subgeneres-busy and enigmatic (like house) post post-dubstep scene in some years. I know we already have post-dubstep / post-juke808 / dungeon evolutions etc. but they are still too much attached to the past, they aren't fresh enough. I think Kryptic Minds 2009 output is the more important innovation in the dubstep scene and the fact they were dnb producers and never listened dubstep besides a few tunes is very significative and it reflects a certain lack of innovation by many already established dubstep producers, i also thought could be the future of the genre, but i was wrong, cuz is taking the same way of neurofunk (very technical but generic music and often souless with tons of similar sounding producers and very little ideas). Don't get me wrong, i like some neurofunk and is very efficient in the dance, but where is the future in a style that is the same since 2005 ? 2000's Autechre output(Confield, Untilted, Draft 7.30), is the future burn in music, still after many years, not a bunch of resampled reeces. Same thing for bro stuff and a large part of KM ripoffs Schackleton is a beast, amazing innovative artist, but sadly its sound, just like many forward thinking 80s postindustrial music that i love or its 'father' muslimgauze, as amazing could be, is too esoteric and mental for create some bigger scene, it's a 100 % underground thing, period


so in my opinion:

disco->commercial disco -> unreal mainstream success and extreme oversaturation till the inevitable death -> HOUSE
dubstep-> brostep->unreal mainstream success and extreme oversaturation till the inevitable death -> NEW BIG SCENE


the best is yet to come