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oh wait i forgot the bosnian pyramids. that one was a winner.

I met a civil servant the other day who is working high up on id cards, and showed me his, they look pretty mundane and you can see the chip in it and that. As you say for travelling Europe or if you are travelling alot it makes sense, but compulsory I think is a big no no. What bothers me more is the whole concept of tracing movement esp. if you used the id regularly, but then again im not a criminal so I have nothing to hide. Nevertheless, I like the idea of being able to have some form of anonymity. But why kid myself, we have no anonymity in this day and age anyway.

I spent a long time working around the issue of the UK biometric national ID card because of work.

Basically, the Government's approach had been to pick off the 'easy' targets first: first immigrant workers would need one, then international students, and then aviation workers in something called the 'Critical Workers' Identity Card' project. It basically was that in order to apply for an airside security pass, you would need to also hold that National ID card.

Anyway I spent about 6 months lobbying on it with lots of hoo-haa and we managed to get it stopped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7301424.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8127081.stm



What nobody here besides abelard has grasped is that the issue isn't the card itself. Lots of countries have ID cards, I carry around loads of different identifying 'things' with me all the time, from bank cards to my passport to my business cards. I've also proved who I am the large number of times I've been stopped and searched using a combination of these.

The real issue here is the national biometric DNA database and how the cards will be used to exclude those who won't be able to have one for whatever reason.

The Government and various agencies will be able to compare data for your financial history, marital life, health and travel against all sorts of shit.

And if you're a not-quite-legal worker you can be denied medical treatment.


Fuck that.

I'd have an ID card because I look 12 but:

1) Fuck having all my medical records, NI number, driving licence, credit rating and the colour of my shit on it.
2) It's just another thing for me to lose.
3) RFID scanners

IIRC there's already planning permission been put forwards and granted for ID card centres in various places up and down the country - so I am told (don't know if this is true?)

lol

1. Actually getting one.

2. Announcing it on here, you prat...

seckle wrote:oh wait i forgot the bosnian pyramids. that one was a winner.

lol, that was the fucking best.

I don't see the issue, it's consolidating lots of disparate things into 1 more efficient thing (convergence yeh?)
Sure a bad man can steal it and nick your identity (as with existing ID), or the Home Office could leave a Zune full of pictures of you washing your hair in North Greenwich tube station (which could, maybe, kind of happen). Sure it's got RFID (so does my passport and the books & DVDs I take from the library and anything I've bought from Amazon and almost ALL THE FOOD IN MY KITCHEN) you can buy sleeves that block the signal.
I don't see the point in whinging unless it does get made compulsory and if it does it'll get protested against and boy-cotted and all the other things we do when we get all mad and democratic.

Most immigrants living in the UK since 2008 have had them and I don't believe there have been any major issues or scandals.

people also miss the point of the whole data harvesting, which will be helped by this tool too: knowing the trends, the needs and the usual reactions of large populations will make them easier to manipulate and control as a whole, not necessarily as individuals, because if you're not special you won't get special attention.

if they know better what makes us tic, they know better how to get what they want from us

so sure, fuck conspiracy theorists!

alien pimp wrote:people also miss the point of the whole data harvesting, which will be helped by this tool too: knowing the trends, the needs and the usual reactions of large populations will make them easier to manipulate and control as a whole, not necessarily as individuals, because if you're not special you won't get special attention.

if they know better what makes us tic, they know better how to get what they want from us

so sure, fuck conspiracy theorists!

Yeh the government want to manipulate us. Is that what you see our governments role and ambition as? That kind of view point drastically plays down the good job our government do as we live in one of the cushtiest countries in the world and our problems are tiny and trivial.
There are no evil people, just twats who get things wrong and don't understand how "people" work and get panicy and introduce dumb ideas that their democratic masses approve or refuse.
Do you think a global skeletor is watching us through our Nectar cards telling us to how to act and what to buy. Do you think that will ever be the goal of a government made up of, run by and serving humans? Really? REALLLY????
If so you are a mental.

lloydnoise wrote:

alien pimp wrote:people also miss the point of the whole data harvesting, which will be helped by this tool too: knowing the trends, the needs and the usual reactions of large populations will make them easier to manipulate and control as a whole, not necessarily as individuals, because if you're not special you won't get special attention.

if they know better what makes us tic, they know better how to get what they want from us

so sure, fuck conspiracy theorists!

Yeh the government want to manipulate us. Is that what you see our governments role and ambition as? That kind of view point drastically plays down the good job our government do as we live in one of the cushtiest countries in the world and our problems are tiny and trivial.
There are no evil people, just twats who get things wrong and don't understand how "people" work and get panicy and introduce dumb ideas that their democratic masses approve or refuse.
Do you think a global skeletor is watching us through our Nectar cards telling us to how to act and what to buy. Do you think that will ever be the goal of a government made up of, run by and serving humans? Really? REALLLY????
If so you are a mental.

lol
i'm glad to be called mental by anyone who still thinks "There are no evil people" and governments are "made up of, run by and serving humans?"
i hope you get served well

lloydnoise wrote:

alien pimp wrote:people also miss the point of the whole data harvesting, which will be helped by this tool too: knowing the trends, the needs and the usual reactions of large populations will make them easier to manipulate and control as a whole, not necessarily as individuals, because if you're not special you won't get special attention.

if they know better what makes us tic, they know better how to get what they want from us

so sure, fuck conspiracy theorists!

Yeh the government want to manipulate us. Is that what you see our governments role and ambition as? That kind of view point drastically plays down the good job our government do as we live in one of the cushtiest countries in the world and our problems are tiny and trivial.
There are no evil people, just twats who get things wrong and don't understand how "people" work and get panicy and introduce dumb ideas that their democratic masses approve or refuse.
Do you think a global skeletor is watching us through our Nectar cards telling us to how to act and what to buy. Do you think that will ever be the goal of a government made up of, run by and serving humans? Really? REALLLY????
If so you are a mental.

mate, shut up and say thank you, the pimp's protecting us from all sorts of evil shit and you just mock. does your mother enjoy having med students fist her pum-pum?

you know they put fucking fluoride in the water too now? that shit melts tin foil hats and LEAVES US TOTALLY UNPROTECTED from wireless brain molestation when we're in the shower.

abelard wrote:

lloydnoise wrote:

alien pimp wrote:people also miss the point of the whole data harvesting, which will be helped by this tool too: knowing the trends, the needs and the usual reactions of large populations will make them easier to manipulate and control as a whole, not necessarily as individuals, because if you're not special you won't get special attention.

if they know better what makes us tic, they know better how to get what they want from us

so sure, fuck conspiracy theorists!

Yeh the government want to manipulate us. Is that what you see our governments role and ambition as? That kind of view point drastically plays down the good job our government do as we live in one of the cushtiest countries in the world and our problems are tiny and trivial.
There are no evil people, just twats who get things wrong and don't understand how "people" work and get panicy and introduce dumb ideas that their democratic masses approve or refuse.
Do you think a global skeletor is watching us through our Nectar cards telling us to how to act and what to buy. Do you think that will ever be the goal of a government made up of, run by and serving humans? Really? REALLLY????
If so you are a mental.

mate, shut up and say thank you, the pimp's protecting us from all sorts of evil shit and you just mock. does your mother enjoy having med students fist her pum-pum?

you know they put fucking fluoride in the water too now? that shit melts tin foil hats and LEAVES US TOTALLY UNPROTECTED from wireless brain molestation when we're in the shower.

you're totally protected from brain molestation by simply not having one

lloydnoise wrote:

alien pimp wrote:people also miss the point of the whole data harvesting, which will be helped by this tool too: knowing the trends, the needs and the usual reactions of large populations will make them easier to manipulate and control as a whole, not necessarily as individuals, because if you're not special you won't get special attention.

if they know better what makes us tic, they know better how to get what they want from us

so sure, fuck conspiracy theorists!

Yeh the government want to manipulate us.

Yeah because Tony and his gang never manipulated and fabricated reasons for "us" to go to illegally invade iraq for oil or anything. I mean this whole inquiry isn't anything to do with the state deliberately misleading its own cabinet, the public and the UN is it? It's all just a big mistake.

the average lloydnoise would elect only someone just as dumb to waste an entire country no doubt, except nobody cares for the lloydnoises and their opinions, they are there just to work for others and be lied whatever they like to hear best and makes them more comfortable with their own nothingness

Instead of carrying an ID card, I carry a piece of paper that says 'Fuck You'.

tr0tsky wrote:The real issue here is the national biometric DNA database and how the cards will be used to exclude those who won't be able to have one for whatever reason.

The Government and various agencies will be able to compare data for your financial history, marital life, health and travel against all sorts of shit.

This for sure this is the problem and would completely put me off having one. But if not compulsory, and if easier in terms of lifestyle then by all means use one. I wouldnt.

Also Jacqui Smith is a dick.

missedthebus wrote:Also Jacqui Smith is a dick.

naaah, just a twat that doesn't know better, but surely well intended, i know it from a smart friend here

i've not had ID for about 8 months now
lost my driving license, which was my only ID.

feels great!

only pain is when I try to buy a lighter or some skins and get ID'd by a polish person who looks half my age.

missedthebus wrote:Also Jacqui Smith is a dick.

Can't argue with that.

lloydnoise wrote:

alien pimp wrote:people also miss the point of the whole data harvesting, which will be helped by this tool too: knowing the trends, the needs and the usual reactions of large populations will make them easier to manipulate and control as a whole, not necessarily as individuals, because if you're not special you won't get special attention.

if they know better what makes us tic, they know better how to get what they want from us

so sure, fuck conspiracy theorists!

Yeh the government want to manipulate us. Is that what you see our governments role and ambition as? That kind of view point drastically plays down the good job our government do as we live in one of the cushtiest countries in the world and our problems are tiny and trivial.
There are no evil people, just twats who get things wrong and don't understand how "people" work and get panicy and introduce dumb ideas that their democratic masses approve or refuse.
Do you think a global skeletor is watching us through our Nectar cards telling us to how to act and what to buy. Do you think that will ever be the goal of a government made up of, run by and serving humans? Really? REALLLY????
If so you are a mental.

Word.

All of the hype around ID cards has absolutely zero factual or substantiated evidence. It invariably comes from the same people who peddle nonsense about UFOs, fairies, George Galloway and other assorted nut-job conspiracy rubbish.

Even if everything we did was recorded on some huge database (the logistics of which would be absolutely incredibly difficult) do people think the government has the time and resources to sift through every single time you buy some petrol or a chocolate orange? Even if they did, why would they and what reasonable evidence could anyone provide that would need or want this information?

Do you think if the government wanted to start tracking what everyone was up to they'd do through something as opaque as an ID scheme?

If the government REALLY wanted to know what you were up to they could easily track everything you buy and everything you say on the Internet. Or just read your credit and bank card transactions.

If you're truly paranoid about people knowing what you're doing and where you're going.

Stop using the internet, destroy your biometric passport, stop using your mobile phone and cancel your bank account, because those four things already provide more information about what you're doing than an ID scheme EVER WILL.

That is the long and short of it.