Dubstepforum.com

Watch BBC1 today at 8.30

setspeed wrote:haha yeah the i.d. & baobinga album was released for free this month and was on torrent sites within 36 hours.....

That just shows me that the kind of people who use these sites have no intrest whatsoever in the music, just how much of it they can download without paying. Its gotten to where I just hate the word torrent and avoid it online.

I get google updates every day both for myself and Sub Swara.

suffice it to say that while 1/2 of what i get is russian illegal download sites, the offers for a moscow/vladivostok/st. petersburg tour have not been pouring in.

Sharmaji wrote:I get google updates every day both for myself and Sub Swara.

suffice it to say that while 1/2 of what i get is russian illegal download sites, the offers for a moscow/vladivostok/st. petersburg tour have not been pouring in.

Yeah, I find myself on those quite a bit too... and ringtone sites lol.

nitz wrote:Watch BBC1 today at 8.30

Big shout!

Any illegal downloading is bad. Why do people say it's ok to download 'EMI' or 'Sony' artists, it is'nt ok. If people produce a product then they should get paid, no matter how big they are. If I produce a record such as' Dj ZInc' "Hello" which was selling for £20, then so be it. If you produce something, you set the price, and state it's released date.
Just because music is'nt as tangable as yesteryear, doesn't mean people can steal it, if you want it, pay for it.

Lastly the comment 'money grabbing comercial labels', so what if their money grabing, they set the price, do their markeing for a return, just like a tangable product such as 'Armani clothes.

Second to last point, nothing can probably stop the downloaders, but if it carries on, music will be worthless. Yes you make it for people to listen to, but everyone would still like to be paid regardless.

bmills wrote:Here's my moral view on this:
I download illegaly. Bigger heads that go on tour and such don't have much to lose. But for the smaller underground scene, I definitely support it.

Illegal*** btw

classy

Sharmaji wrote:I get google updates every day both for myself and Sub Swara.

suffice it to say that while 1/2 of what i get is russian illegal download sites, the offers for a moscow/vladivostok/st. petersburg tour have not been pouring in.

google alerts can be depressing

i only pay for music if i have to. that means if i really want something and i can't find it anywhere else. then yes i will purchase it. but if i can find it on the web for free and if i want it then yeah i'm going to download it.

i know a lot of people on this site won't like that sort of mentality but it's the way a lot of people think. again i am aware that some people on this site are trying to make money from selling their music.

for a lot of the younger teens coming up enjoying music, they have no idea what it's like to purchase music. my little brother and all his friends just download music. they didn't grow up having to pay for music and they won't want to change that as they get older.

the market for music out there is so saturated and i know a lot of people pour their heart and soul into the songs they create and they feel they deserve some sort of financial reward for their efforts. well guess what, there are thousands of people out there doing the exact same things as you. thousands of people everyday making music. with people now in a position to download and listen to almost anything they want to, you could argue that the artist should be grateful that somebody is even bothering to download their music. would they prefer it to be lost in the sea of music that drowns the web?

if you're making music, uploading it to the net and are a tiny bit successful then there is a good chance your stuff is going to start getting pirated. that is one of the downsides of the net. that's one of the downsides to making music nowadays. on the upside it's easier than ever to create music.

if you want to set a price for your music then set it. but nowadays don't expect people to pay that price if they don't want to.

and remember if everybody who is only making music for money disappears things will just move on to people making music for free.

yellowhighlighter wrote:i only pay for music if i have to. that means if i really want something and i can't find it anywhere else. then yes i will purchase it. but if i can find it on the web for free and if i want it then yeah i'm going to download it.

i know a lot of people on this site won't like that sort of mentality but it's the way a lot of people think. again i am aware that some people on this site are trying to make money from selling their music.

for a lot of the younger teens coming up enjoying music, they have no idea what it's like to purchase music. my little brother and all his friends just download music. they didn't grow up having to pay for music and they won't want to change that as they get older.

the market for music out there is so saturated and i know a lot of people pour their heart and soul into the songs they create and they feel they deserve some sort of financial reward for their efforts. well guess what, there are thousands of people out there doing the exact same things as you. thousands of people everyday making music. with people now in a position to download and listen to almost anything they want to, you could argue that the artist should be grateful that somebody is even bothering to download their music. would they prefer it to be lost in the sea of music that drowns the web?

if you're making music, uploading it to the net and are a tiny bit successful then there is a good chance your stuff is going to start getting pirated. that is one of the downsides of the net. that's one of the downsides to making music nowadays. on the upside it's easier than ever to create music.

if you want to set a price for your music then set it. but nowadays don't expect people to pay that price if they don't want to.

and remember if everybody who is only making music for money disappears things will just move on to people making music for free.

that whole mentality it's what's wrong. people thing they have the right or feel entitled to just grab something for nothing when money and time is being poured into their production. software for the most part isn't free if you want it to continue development. hardware certainly isn't free.

can i ask you a question.

have you ever earned money from selling tunes or do you think you will try in the future to earn money from selling tunes?

to the end listener it doesn't matter how much time or money was poured into a product. all that matters is the quality of the finished article. most tunes are sold at a standard rate across the board. should the tunes that took more hard work or used more expensive gear be sold for more?

if somebody spends one year and one million on a song does that make it automatically better than a recording of a guy sitting at a piano for two minutes?

there is nothing "wrong" with my mentality at all. it may just differ from yours.

yes i have made money from my tunes. although now it's getting harder to justify even putting stuff out on say a ltd vinyl run or cd cause some asshole is just going to rip that and spread it on the net and you get stuck with the bill for manufacturing the actual product. seriously even mp3/flac/wav downloads are cheap as hell and that goes towards paying the mastering costs etc plus it's nice to have more than just ramen to eat.

making money from art is a dead concept. as is paying for digital media.

yellowhighlighter wrote:making money from art is a dead concept. as is paying for digital media.

cool walk into a museum and try to walk out with a painting
should make for an interesting defense at trial

the percentage of artists (painters) who make money is tiny.

the percentage of people who make money off of music will steadily drop as well.

there is no need to make idiotic analogies if you don't have an intelligent point to make.

yellowhighlighter wrote:the percentage of artists (painters) who make money is tiny.

the percentage of people who make money off of music will steadily drop as well.

there is no need to make idiotic analogies if you don't have an intelligent point to make.

well video games are art, so are all those pretty little programs and plugins people use to make music. so people don't deserve to be paided for all the hours coding them, and updating?

well i purchase my video games and some of my software.

as i said it makes no difference to the end user (consumer) how much time, effort or money was invested into a product. at the end of the day i download stuff for free because i care more about myself than i do about some other nameless person (shock shock horror). and unfortunately a lot of people think like me as well.

i will purchase software if i have to, or if i feel like supporting the developer. but i will not do it out of some sort of misguided moral obligation. because really should i make myself suffer and spend my money just so i can say "well at least i'm doing my bit for the software/music industry".

what's the point in that? is my extra 100euro or 20euro going to save either industry? no i don't think it is.

you can argue that it is "mindset" and people sharing a similar one which is causing the problem and you would be correct. but in the grand scheme of things me downloading (one person) doesn't hurt the music or software industry in any sort of realistic sense. if i were to start purchasing everything i download it would begin to have an immediate affect on somebody, that person being me.

the problem is of course that too many people are downloading too much. if some people want to take a stand and purchase music then that's great. good for them. but trying to shove your ideology down other people's throats is like pushing a boulder up a vertical cliff.

I don't think paying for art is a dead concept but it is a dying one imo. It has nothing to do with whether it is right or wrong it's just that that is the way the market is going and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it. Only thing you can do is adapt or just quit. Deadly brings up software and coders and I think it is following the same trends tbh. It is getting easier and easier to code software. Stuff that took a whole room of guys to code a few years ago can be done by one guy in his spare time now. This is why you see so much good free or cheap stuff out there these days. Eventually I think it is going to be tough for Cubase or whatever to compete with something like Reaper which does essentially the same thing for a fraction of the price. You are even seeing software companies putting their names on hardware items now, that should tell you something.

Anyway once all music is free for the taking legally, it is going to suck for people that want to make money from it but it isn't going to be the end of music. Far from it, it will be a market left with only people that truly have a passion for making music. I don't really care. I have kinda given up on the idea of making a living off of music already. Que sera sera.

BTW some of you guys have out of date ideas about how to combat piracy. This isn't the slsk era anymore, you can't flood the system with mixes and promo shit. Hell torrents are outdated. Blog/message boards with rapidshare type links rule the day. The people that run the site decide what gets put up there not you.

@Yellowhighlighter: Im kinda feeling what you said earlier about things going full circle and people just making music for free. I dont know quite what grabs me about the idea but..... It just sounds right to me. I think people doing things for the love of it leads to more honest and meaningful expression. Also we will see a shit load less of these manufactured, cash cow boy and girl bands that are nothing more than money making schemes for fat cat record execs and more true heads giving it everything they have just because they love the music....... The same applies to the guys who make plug ins etc.

I agree that selling music for money will soon be redundant. The money to be made from underground music has been (for a long long time now) in live performances/djing etc and it will continue that way.

At the end of the day music will never die. I get the impression that some people think that when music is no longer a realistic way to make money all the producers/musicians etc will say "Ahh fuck it, Im not ging to bother anymore....." That to me is ridiculous. People will always make music because to some people it is something that they cannot live without doing.

Its the same old thing guys, the world is constantly changing either learn to change with it or get left behind.

[EDIT] Errr Abz posted just before me........ Oh well nice to see we are singing from the same hymn sheet bro

see... when deadly habit, abz myself and some others started djing we'd pay 10-15 for import tunes.

mp3's are $1.50

get a job and stop stealing

I know this is a dead arguement, but trying to justify being dishonest is wack

JFK wrote:@Yellowhighlighter: Im kinda feeling what you said earlier about things going full circle and people just making music for free. I dont know quite what grabs me about the idea but..... It just sounds right to me. I think people doing things for the love of it leads to more honest and meaningful expression. Also we will see a shit load less of these manufactured, cash cow boy and girl bands that are nothing more than money making schemes for fat cat record execs and more true heads giving it everything they have just because they love the music....... The same applies to the guys who make plug ins etc.

I agree that selling music for money will soon be redundant. The money to be made from underground music has been (for a long long time now) in live performances/djing etc and it will continue that way.

At the end of the day music will never die. I get the impression that some people think that when music is no longer a realistic way to make money all the producers/musicians etc will say "Ahh fuck it, Im not ging to bother anymore....." That to me is ridiculous. People will always make music because to some people it is something that they cannot live without doing.

you're right to an extent. People will never stop writing music, and the truly driven will always do it no matter what. However, people will still have to give up to a degree - I know plenty of formerly professional producers who have pretty much stopped now due to financial issues. They still write music, but with their incomes going down, they had to get a day job, then if a wife and kids appear on the horizon, all of a sudden they don't have so much time for music. So you hear a lot less from people - there will be a lot more hobbyists. Maybe that's a good thing? I don't know.

The other thing is, it's certainly not going to change the balance of music away from the major label manufactured shit, I'm afraid. The reverse, if anything. What makes more money - Madonna in a 20,000 capacity venue at £75 a ticket, or a new indie band playing to 200 for £8 a ticket? Yep. Cheesy shit is still going to be out there, it's just gonna be a loss leader for the tours and the merch sales. The only difference is that the indie band/underground dancemusic producers will have to work 10 times harder to make themselves heard, because record labels won't be funding them anymore.

it's a brave new world, good luck all crews...