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back2onett wrote:I would've thought an 808 sub would be the way to go just because of all the analouge processing but I just can't be arsed to sample an 808 everytime I want a sub

why would you do it every time? Just get it right once and save that setting!!!

Easy as that. Adjust the attack on the envelope or lowpass a bit if there is too much of a click at the beginning and then save that shit.

mks wrote:Easy as that. Adjust the attack on the envelope or lowpass a bit if there is too much of a click at the beginning and then save that shit.

forgot to say dont forget to tune it!!! so when you play c... C is what you get!

knell wrote:my 2 cents:

i live in LA, and ill go ahead and say it: they love bass here. like.... love it.

i've been to shows (ironically named bassface) that are just that.... only suffocatingly loud bass. mid/high range are nonexistent.

anyway... i've been to a few rap shows as well, and the 808 that they use on a much smaller system is generally that much louder than the dubstep sines...

my theory is that its because 808 is a drum-bass... it has that impact hit at the start of every note that really drives the sound home, and accents the melody of the bassline.

so, if i want the bass to ride the melody, i use sines, if i want the bassline to BE the melody, i smash it home with 808

exactly. listen to a tune like "mud vip" and tell me you can get that sorta weight out of an ordinary sine wave.

along the same lines, who here has heard an ACTUAL 808 through a rugged system? that was one of the only times in my life i've ever thought "TURN THE LOW END DOWN" good times, although i've yet to hear a modded one (i hear they can actually go like 5 octaves lower )

joekool wrote: along the same lines, who here has heard an ACTUAL 808 through a rugged system?

Yeah man, one of my fond memories is Egyptian Lover live doing an 808 solo holding the damn drum machine over his head!

A sine is a sine. 'Uber analog processing' and other voodoo won't automatically make 'knockin phat bass'. The context of the mix and how everything fits together is more important than where the bass comes from.

How do you gys go about tuning it? Do you do it by ear or eq??? I would like to start tuning my drums but I am not good at coining pitch by ear.

Surely the pitch envelope of any 808 has something to do with the difference in sound?

Depone wrote:

back2onett wrote:I would've thought an 808 sub would be the way to go just because of all the analouge processing but I just can't be arsed to sample an 808 everytime I want a sub

why would you do it every time? Just get it right once and save that setting!!!

either way it's hardly going to make a difference so what's the point in the extra work? I can understand if the sub is going to be the main part of your track but for me it's just to add some extra weight to what I've already got, very rare I have a sub playing on its own

moki wrote:How do you gys go about tuning it? Do you do it by ear or eq??? I would like to start tuning my drums but I am not good at coining pitch by ear.

Try playing the kick a couple of octaves higher (i find it easier to tell the difference further up) and a/b with a sine wave playing the same note. Using a similar sound to compare to is a lot easier than just tuning it within the track.

Thats what i find anyway.

meer wrote:A sine is a sine. 'Uber analog processing' and other voodoo won't automatically make 'knockin phat bass'. The context of the mix and how everything fits together is more important than where the bass comes from.

i typed a long reply to this and it was lost to my FUCKED UP internet connection but here goes..

i grew up with miami bass. splack pack and luke skywalker and ladi luv and all of that shit.. and i can tell you right now, after hearing thousands of 808s and sine waves, there is a difference. its not analog voodoo secret black magic. it just is what it is. and yes, the mix is important, but mixing is just a waste of time if your source material isnt up to spec. the goal should be to choose such perfect samples that you never have to touch a fader. of course thats kind of unrealistic but you get my point. youre saving yourself quite a bit of trouble down the road if you start with quality source material.

mks wrote:

joekool wrote: along the same lines, who here has heard an ACTUAL 808 through a rugged system?

Yeah man, one of my fond memories is Egyptian Lover live doing an 808 solo holding the damn drum machine over his head!

thats awesome! in my atari teenage riot days i had a beat-up sequential circuits TOM that i would solo with, but EVERY single button stuck like a motherfucker so it was guaranteed to sound awful every time. it was a total piece. just thinking about how the pitch-shifting on that thing sounded is enough to make me feel nauseous..

studio dread wrote:Surely the pitch envelope of any 808 has something to do with the difference in sound?

i have ZERO clue what the actual difference is, but anyone whose tore through enough bassbins in their life can tell you that there is one. a friend of mine actually built his own little 808 kick from scratch, so i should really sit down and ask him what all is goin on behind the scenes.. thing sounded practically identical btw and from what he told me anyone who can solder should be able to build it..

back2onett wrote: either way it's hardly going to make a difference so what's the point in the extra work? I can understand if the sub is going to be the main part of your track but for me it's just to add some extra weight to what I've already got, very rare I have a sub playing on its own

you might be surprised at how big a difference it makes. its also actually simpler than making a heavy sub patch in some ways. and since when is it okay to discard any amount of weight man?!?!?!!? bass junkies like me are after every last drop..

studio dread wrote:

moki wrote:How do you gys go about tuning it? Do you do it by ear or eq??? I would like to start tuning my drums but I am not good at coining pitch by ear.

Try playing the kick a couple of octaves higher (i find it easier to tell the difference further up) and a/b with a sine wave playing the same note. Using a similar sound to compare to is a lot easier than just tuning it within the track.

Thats what i find anyway.

Word homes. I'll try that shiatz.

bokatordubstep wrote:i've heard of people sampling the tail of an 808 kick and using it for their sub.

how does one actually just loop one cycle of the waveform? do i literally just zoom in and cut one cycle or is there a special way ?

Did someone say my name? Oh....yeah... 808 vs SINE, I WIN REGARDLESS

joekool wrote: its not analog voodoo secret black magic. it just is what it is.
i have ZERO clue what the actual difference is..

A sine wave is a sine wave. Other than frequency, phase, amplitude and noise I guess, and how these change over time, there are no differences between two sines. These are all easily replicated, as well.

I love those old school 808 sub drops in jungle. You could feasibly do the same thing with soundforge's synthesis engine w/ sine waves and pitch bend. I like to cut my 808 kick on the axis that makes it pop when it hits as well. Good times

joekool wrote:

knell wrote:my 2 cents:

i live in LA, and ill go ahead and say it: they love bass here. like.... love it.

i've been to shows (ironically named bassface) that are just that.... only suffocatingly loud bass. mid/high range are nonexistent.

anyway... i've been to a few rap shows as well, and the 808 that they use on a much smaller system is generally that much louder than the dubstep sines...

my theory is that its because 808 is a drum-bass... it has that impact hit at the start of every note that really drives the sound home, and accents the melody of the bassline.

so, if i want the bass to ride the melody, i use sines, if i want the bassline to BE the melody, i smash it home with 808

exactly. listen to a tune like "mud vip" and tell me you can get that sorta weight out of an ordinary sine wave.

along the same lines, who here has heard an ACTUAL 808 through a rugged system? that was one of the only times in my life i've ever thought "TURN THE LOW END DOWN" good times, although i've yet to hear a modded one (i hear they can actually go like 5 octaves lower )

Yo knell your missing how these 808 sub basses are made. Its not the beefy 'slap' of the beginning of the bass, people take just one cycle from the tail of the 808 kick just after the initial hit and loop it seamlessly. Then you put it in your chosen sampler, and tune it to a key, lets say C.

I do however LOVE those jungle 808 drops. A perfect example is Circles by adam F.

Skip tp 3:39 for what im on about

moki wrote:

studio dread wrote:

moki wrote:How do you gys go about tuning it? Do you do it by ear or eq??? I would like to start tuning my drums but I am not good at coining pitch by ear.

Try playing the kick a couple of octaves higher (i find it easier to tell the difference further up) and a/b with a sine wave playing the same note. Using a similar sound to compare to is a lot easier than just tuning it within the track.

Thats what i find anyway.

Word homes. I'll try that shiatz.

If you're in FL you can use Wave Candy as a Spectrum Analyzer to make things waaaay easier.

meer wrote:

joekool wrote: its not analog voodoo secret black magic. it just is what it is.
i have ZERO clue what the actual difference is..

A sine wave is a sine wave. Other than frequency, phase, amplitude and noise I guess, and how these change over time, there are no differences between two sines. These are all easily replicated, as well.

Depends whether the 808 'sine' is a pure sine or whether it's actually a bit distorted. Obv this would actually make it less bassy than a pure sine, but with more 'presence' or 'punch' - which would make it feel like it was hitting harder.

Would be very easy to put this to the test if anyone has the sampler patch set up and can be arsed... just a single-cycle-of-808 based patch, get the same sampler patch with the 808 replaced by a pure sine from soundforge or a synth, play half a dozen notes from one interspersed with half a dozen from the other, and see who can tell the difference consistantly.

Would be kind of interesting to know, cos I always find 808 based sounds hit harder than I can manage with a synth, but I'm also kind of aware of the placebo effect and that there might be a load of other factors influencing it.