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Basic A wrote:I know I can train my computer to just mix for me while I walk around and drink but I dont want to?

oh thank goodness someone mentioned this... i vote this x 1,000,000. The Ableton autosyncers arent DJs. They're folks with enough money to get equipment and an index finger thats capable of clicking a mouse/touchpad.

I'd never spend money on someone that did that unless they were the producer that made most of the songs they play.

Technology is a gift/curse.

Anyway... back on topic, i would buy the cheapest you can, and treat it gently til you can buy a workhorse controller... definitely worth it in the long run if you're serious about DJing

Basic A wrote:Thats exactly what I have a problem with? not having to actually be able to match or mix? I know I can train my computer to just mix for me while I walk around and drink but I dont want to?

My opinion, and take no offense to this, is that people who do that, really detract from people like me who just cue up with the pitch fade n our ears.

My opinion, is that if you cant beatmatch and flow indefinately until you faint from exhaustion, with nothing but your ears and two players, your not a dj?

My opinion, is very controversial.

But Ive spent hours everyday for years learning that... and I did it with absoltuely nothing (see crummy gear thread)... and Im sorry, if that makes me feel a little better about my own talents, and work ethic, then a kid with a sync button or ableton grids or w/e. But I do.

Tbh i agree with your opinion, when i posted about using beatgrids etc, i wasnt saying thats what i do, just posing the question

and what your saying about flow really rings true with me, if someone jus throughs on any old track knowing the software will sync it for them the're not thinking about the tune selection, not thinking about how one tune will flow into the next.

i'm in the same boat. i've been fucking around with vdj nonstop and i'm loving it. making mixtapes as a kid was always one of my favorite things to do. doesn't matter if i'm making a tape for some babe or a hardcore punk/metal tape for myself, shit NEEDS to flow and you can only do that with constant practice, knowing your collection, and trusting your ears. i'm gonna save up and get a hercules rmx.....




it's a little more expensive then what you're looking at but you can add on turntables/cdjs as you expand. comes with vdj basic(works with other software too) and jog wheels for the hands on folks.

I like the last one, I think I want a controller that I can expand with later on..
I think i'm gonna save up for something like that.

thanks.

nvrmind

Basic A wrote:Thats exactly what I have a problem with? not having to actually be able to match or mix? I know I can train my computer to just mix for me while I walk around and drink but I dont want to?

My opinion, and take no offense to this, is that people who do that, really detract from people like me who just cue up with the pitch fade n our ears.

My opinion, is that if you cant beatmatch and flow indefinately until you faint from exhaustion, with nothing but your ears and two players, your not a dj?

My opinion, is very controversial.

But Ive spent hours everyday for years learning that... and I did it with absoltuely nothing (see crummy gear thread)... and Im sorry, if that makes me feel a little better about my own talents, and work ethic, then a kid with a sync button or ableton grids or w/e. But I do.

Good post Basic.

For me: I don't really give two shits what people think about how I mix tunes. Therefore, I have the lot to choose from with my one and only driver being what I have the most fun doing. I have a lot of fun beat matching with pitch faders and old school cueing. This takes talent and time to learn. Therefore, Ableton is probably not the best option for me. However, Ableton does offer infinite creativity to a DJ who does not wish to abuse the software. You truly can do quite a bit of interesting shit in it outside of beat matching.

At the end of the day, if a DJ wants to be a DJ because of any other reason outside of enjoying it, they will choose the easiest route and wear the coolest clothes possible while "mixing" a shit set. They do it for the image of being a DJ, they make shit, and it's obvious to anyone educated in electronic music. They want redbull vodkas and tits in their face -- and nothing else. It's not tools (Ableton, Technics, Serato, MIDI Controllers, etc), it's people abusing tools that I take offense to.

tylerblue wrote:It's not tools (Ableton, Technics, Serato, MIDI Controllers, etc), it's idiots using them as shortcuts n cheater tools that I take offense to.

Sorry.

Had to be fixed

lol, you just had to one up me didn't you?

tylerblue wrote:They want ... tits in their face

I'm 80% sure that I'm going to go down this "cheater" path, AND I really do like tits in my face. So you guys might be on to something here.

so do most of you guys frown upon people running traktor and a midi controller decks doing essentially the same thing as you would on vinyl/cdjs but using a waveform rather than their ears?

goodeh wrote:so do most of you guys frown upon people running traktor and a midi controller decks doing essentially the same thing as you would on vinyl/cdjs but using a waveform rather than their ears?

No

nowaysj wrote:

tylerblue wrote:They want ... tits in their face

I'm 80% sure that I'm going to go down this "cheater" path, AND I really do like tits in my face. So you guys might be on to something here.

You're welcome

Do it in your DAW.. Cut & Paste / FX automation.

Bare people do it.

There is another thing about this thread that annoys me, which is that everyone seems so determined to insist ableton is like 'THE' live daw eesentially, which aside from a catchy name, differ this as sort of propoganda. My DAW (FLstudio) serves a host for both effects on my cdj master, as well as synth/drum rack/sequencer/tool for impossible pitch correcting timestretch, ect.

I have often asked ableton users to compare my setup to what they use. Thier two main concerns are USUALLY that they would have to beatmatch it all by ear, and then they try and claim fl is not capable of what ableton (any other daw) is capable of in this context.

If one of you ableton kids can tell me what more can possibly be done with ableton then what described above (sequencer/pattern rack/impossible tune player with pitch/timestretch, vst effects on various portions of it all, ect.)

Ive always just been stuk trying to figure out what more ableotn could possibly do then that.

I don't know why you are spoiling for a fight, especially with ableton people, what are they going to do, hit u with a launchpad?

Ableton is designed for live performance. QED

Im not looking for a fight I wanna know what ableton is capable of that ISNT possible on FL, and CDJs... and no. you cant say sync button. Thats one feature Im glad nothing on my rig has.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1H9W_iLff0

@ 2.30

Quite an old video but Hawtin makes some good points. As long as the technology extends your creativity then its all good.

Some of the best sets I've seen have been computer based.

I enjoy mixing on vinyl but don't feel that the people who use the sync button are shit and have no talent as long as they use the spare time to do something creative.

Basic A wrote:There is another thing about this thread that annoys me, which is that everyone seems so determined to insist ableton is like 'THE' live daw eesentially, which aside from a catchy name, differ this as sort of propoganda. My DAW (FLstudio) serves a host for both effects on my cdj master, as well as synth/drum rack/sequencer/tool for impossible pitch correcting timestretch, ect.

I have often asked ableton users to compare my setup to what they use. Thier two main concerns are USUALLY that they would have to beatmatch it all by ear, and then they try and claim fl is not capable of what ableton (any other daw) is capable of in this context.

If one of you ableton kids can tell me what more can possibly be done with ableton then what described above (sequencer/pattern rack/impossible tune player with pitch/timestretch, vst effects on various portions of it all, ect.)

Ive always just been stuk trying to figure out what more ableotn could possibly do then that.

i hate to thread jack but this is what i am wanting to do except sub the cdjs for image lines decadance so i can use turntables is there any way you could bust out a pic of how you set up your gear so i can get my head wrapped around how to do this

A picture isnt going to show you much man, but my myspace link has em... YOur just gonna see a cdj unit sitting in front of a laptop though.

BTW I run Mixx in my rig as well, for extra players. I know you say you want to only use deckadance now, and I know where your coming from with wanting timecode vinyl, but remember that you could run all 3 if you wire things creatively.

My rig though...

Take master output from CDJs and run into audio input on PC... I use my master line because my cdjs are an all in one, however, on tabletop cdjs, you could also run each players infividual lines into your pc instead...

Now send CDJ master signal to mixer track on FLstudio, send mixer track, to master. Now you can use DAW effects on CDJs.

I also use JACK Audio to send the master output signal of Mixx through my soundcard as mic2... which allows mixx to be sent to another mixer rack on fruity... However, if your using deckadance and windows, rewire would be your best bet.

From there its just a matter of loading up all my effects Ill be using to the cdj/mixx mixer tracks, and mappin it up to nanokontrol...

Samples/loops/synths are made just like you would any other sequence, however, I usually limit myself to 32 bars or so on the playlist, which makes adding and removing things easier in he mix context.

You can open tracks with odd bpms using fl audio clip, thesecan then be pasted, stretched into place using playlist, and you can cut loops, ect. from these live. This is awesome if your like me n would rather bring your 130bpm range tracks up to 140 without the sounding like chipmonks reruns.

dubmatters wrote:As long as the technology extends your creativity then its all good.

Some of the best sets I've seen have been computer based.

I enjoy mixing on vinyl but don't feel that the people who use the sync button are shit and have no talent as long as they use the spare time to do something creative.

I think I may go down the laptop midi controller path not for any ideological reason, but I want to play a certain type of track for people, and I don't have a lot of money to spend on turntables, mixers, and audio boxes.

I don't really think I want to start messing with the songs I'm playing, so I don't want to take the tech in that direction. I just want to play the music.