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Depone wrote:right there are two ways really.

One with audio, and one with midi...

Thanks Depone. Fulla helpful ish. Hadn't quite got my head round the audio, kept just trying to change quantize above the channel strip and was puzzled why it didn't work.

wirez wrote:Don't forget the humanise function too! If used subtly can really put some emphasis on certain hits and exploit the swing a little more, good for hand percussion bits.

Do you use the humanise function much? Have never got into really.

Yeh man, when necessary... If you limit the amount it randomises things it's really good for adding extra feel to your groove. You've got to remember that groove isn't just about the timing imperfections, it's also about the velocity imperfections and certain grooves are defined because hits on certain bits are emphasised which can be represented using a different sample... It depends how human you want it to sound really... But you can get deep on this stuff. I learnt a lot about swing/shuffle/groove/rhythm syncopation just from basic Djembe lessons and researching African rhythms and playing techniques...

I'm sure Sharmaji onion Barji (sorry man, been wanting to say that so long and wasn't able to hold it any longer ) has a lot of knowledge on this stuff and has probably posted threads about it... If Basic A was about I'd tell him to get his searching skills in gear... You should have a look dude

wirez wrote:Yeh man, when necessary... If you limit the amount it randomises things it's really good for adding extra feel to your groove. You've got to remember that groove isn't just about the timing imperfections, it's also about the velocity imperfections and certain grooves are defined because hits on certain bits are emphasised which can be represented using a different sample... It depends how human you want it to sound really... But you can get deep on this stuff. I learnt a lot about swing/shuffle/groove/rhythm syncopation just from basic Djembe lessons and researching African rhythms and playing techniques...

I'm sure Sharmaji onion Barji (sorry man, been wanting to say that so long and wasn't able to hold it any longer ) has a lot of knowledge on this stuff and has probably posted threads about it... If Basic A was about I'd tell him to get his searching skills in gear... You should have a look dude

Wicked will get on it! I like human. But not that human. There's so much to learn, damn I love making music.

P.s how deep does logic go a. Honestly I've been reading the manual and watching SFlogic ninja, thought I had a grasp on it but there is actually so much it can do.

green plan wrote:P.s how deep does logic go a. Honestly I've been reading the manual and watching SFlogic ninja, thought I had a grasp on it but there is actually so much it can do.

SFLogic Ninja is unreal, all that shit he's shown lately about his arp switchers are fucking insane. It's almost showing that Logic can be completely rewired behind the scenes like you can with Reaktor or whatever.

But yeh man, I think it would be near enough impossible to ever learn everything about it because by the time you had, the next version would be released lol

Yeah I've been working through all his videos from the start so not up to the newest ish yet. Can't wait! Haha you can call me SF logic ninja here or you call me David Earle I don't care....

logic is tremendous. even the fact that people have written templates (like, a decade ago) that let it control my roland JV synth, or interface decently w/ the microkorg-- really no other DAW bridges the software/hardware gap so well.

TBH i think ableton does a better job w/ groove templates, and protools' elastic audio sounds a bit less artifact-y than logic's flex tool. tho it ain't bad at all.

w/ that said, load in the MPC groove templates and things will start to "feel" right straight away. try quantizing not just different sections, but different elements differently-- kicks to one settings, hats to another. snares dead on, layered with claps that you play in live and let be messy. then switch 'em in the chorus-- see how the changing groove moves.

also, it's hard to talk about swing--the DAW concept of it--without talking about groove, which up until the MPC really WAS swing. the whole idea of swing implies an uneveness to the rhythm divisions in the measure-- something straight is interpreted as every 16th note having the same duration. When you talk about swing, you basically mean that every other 16th is shorter (and, thus, the remainders are longer). what that relationship is, and how CONSISTENTLY it's applied, is where the groove is.

Every week I have to explain this to percussion students, and it's usually WAY too much drum-nerd info to take in. But think of it this way-- straight riddims are energetic. swung rhythms are groovy. put the 2 together, weave in and out, find the grey areas and that's where you get things sounding exciting-- you know, like MUSIC.

Wicked post!

Yeah, bang on I'm coming back to this one later too..

green plan wrote:...you can call me SF logic ninja here or you call me David Earle I don't care....

This annoys the fuck out of me haha

Sharmaji wrote:...protools' elastic audio sounds a bit less artifact-y than logic's flex tool. tho it ain't bad at all.

This is bound to be addressed in either the next update or a patch before it, I can't say I have noticed any massive problems but I know where you're coming from! Logic never stays behind the competition long...

Sharmaji wrote:...also, it's hard to talk about swing--the DAW concept of it--without talking about groove, which up until the MPC really WAS swing. the whole idea of swing implies an uneveness to the rhythm divisions in the measure-- something straight is interpreted as every 16th note having the same duration. When you talk about swing, you basically mean that every other 16th is shorter (and, thus, the remainders are longer). what that relationship is, and how CONSISTENTLY it's applied, is where the groove is.

Every week I have to explain this to percussion students, and it's usually WAY too much drum-nerd info to take in. But think of it this way-- straight riddims are energetic. swung rhythms are groovy. put the 2 together, weave in and out, find the grey areas and that's where you get things sounding exciting-- you know, like MUSIC.

I knew you'd do me proud and speak your percussion wise words. There's certain things I didn't know from what you said there either, keep the groove comments coming whenever you can man

Yeah I'm starting to get my head around swing, groove and syncopation but any more wise words would be appreciated. What I find hard is to make something that is, for lack of a better word, hype, without having too much going on in the drums. Creating the forward moving energy without having sixteenths and cymbals.

green plan wrote:Yeah I'm starting to get my head around swing, groove and syncopation but any more wise words would be appreciated. What I find hard is to make something that is, for lack of a better word, hype, without having too much going on in the drums. Creating the forward moving energy without having sixteenths and cymbals.

Hehe I probably can't give any advice here... I love going mad and having as many elements of percussion as possible

For sake of trying to give advice though...

If the beat is to drive the track then it should be swung slightly before the beat as opposed to after, to make the track sound as though it is going slightly faster than it is.. I wouldn't recommend swinging the kicks, snares and most of the time the up beat hi hats... But it's still preferential!

But to be honest, hats, shakers or other percussion on the up beat make a good start to giving a track a 'dance music' feeling pretty much every time, probably because it was so prevalent in House music.

The only other advice I can think to give is tease until the drop... Don't bring in all your groove elements until the entire track has dropped.

Hope this helped, hopefully I'm not just telling you stuff you already know with that...

If I'm programming the step sequencer in ultra beat I just give the swing knob a whirl


don't use any of the automatic swing functions


I hand place my audio one-shots manually, and also sometimes my midi data in the piano roll as well... and take note of the 4th number of its' "position" i.e. a drum hit straight for instance would be @ 34 1 1 1 and the same hit drum hit swung might be at 34 1 1 121 and then I will modify the velocity of the swung hit to a lower velocity.. you can see this in the "event" - "additional info" window that pops up on the right side when you click on an individual note in the "piano roll" on the bottom part of the logic screen

Just came across this link and think it belongs in this thread!

Logic Midi Groove Templates

Cheers wirez. I think I'm often guilty of bringing in all the groove too early now you state it. Also I'm definitely a big fan of having your main drum pattern (kicks, snare, hhs, etc) going on, then having a different percussive sound hitting differently. So not in a polyrhythm, but having say a stick or shaker providing a different element of rhythm. Kode 9 curious is a good example of what I mean. Damn these readings I have to do, just wanna go experiment.

48k wrote:Just came across this link and think it belongs in this thread!

Logic Midi Groove Templates

Page not found

wirez wrote:

48k wrote:Just came across this link and think it belongs in this thread!

Logic Midi Groove Templates

Page not found

PROTIP: that url doesn't look right. try this

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... s-you.html

Thanks setspeed! Don't know why that didn't work

...still a useful link though, MPC grooves for Logic = yes please!