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ROYALEFATALE wrote:x2 on waves maxxbass plugin, also the fact that you're using headphones probably isn't helping, they're not the greatest at reproducing accurate sub bass

Depends on the cans, mind are accurate lower then you can hear. The problem is is that super sub frequencies need to be felt to get the full effect and there isn't a set of cans in the world that will do that.

abZ wrote:there isn't a set of cans in the world that will do that.

And they'd scare me if there were.

With all the good advice in this thread, lemme just counterpoint just a little. You can fuck with your sub. You don't have to, but you also don't have to have a hands off approach, like it's gotta be a single sine and don't touch it. Play a bit, there is room to try shit out. Maybe a filtered square would work, with a nice natural gap where the second harmonic of the sound should go, a perfect little nest for a kick?

You know, a sine will give you that pure sub power sound, Sharma says compress it for tension (that can only be experienced at 105db ), but also consider fucking with it a bit. Just for fun.

abZ wrote:

ROYALEFATALE wrote:x2 on waves maxxbass plugin, also the fact that you're using headphones probably isn't helping, they're not the greatest at reproducing accurate sub bass

Depends on the cans, mind are accurate lower then you can hear. The problem is is that super sub frequencies need to be felt to get the full effect and there isn't a set of cans in the world that will do that.

yummm

Layer that shit!

nowaysj wrote:

abZ wrote:there isn't a set of cans in the world that will do that.

And they'd scare me if there were.

With all the good advice in this thread, lemme just counterpoint just a little. You can fuck with your sub. You don't have to, but you also don't have to have a hands off approach, like it's gotta be a single sine and don't touch it. Play a bit, there is room to try shit out. Maybe a filtered square would work, with a nice natural gap where the second harmonic of the sound should go, a perfect little nest for a kick?

You know, a sine will give you that pure sub power sound, Sharma says compress it for tension (that can only be experienced at 105db ), but also consider fucking with it a bit. Just for fun.

You gotta fuck with it. You gotta come up with your OWN shit. I guess the point I didn't actually make was that a lot of stuff just isn't going to work on a sub but again you have to find out for yourself.

im using limiters more recently and find they're a good enough quick fix for getting a strong sub. remember the volume within massive makes a difference to the strength of the sound so make sure that's turned up. sine / lp saw + limiter = can't go wrong pretty much.

edit: if using a saw/square lowpassed, it'll sound bigger with the resonance in a certain spot. though im not sure if this is in some way 'cheating'. don't really understand filter resonance tbh.

resonance = amplitude increase of frequencies around the cutoff.

abZ wrote:

glottis5 wrote:Why would you even use massive for a sub anyway? Just use Audacity to make a sine wave, that way you don't have to have a giant VST open for one extremely simple sound.

I wouldn't either. I have a couple samples I like and I will load them into Live's sampler. I like using pitch envelopes, sometimes lfo on the volume, sometimes as Sharm suggested distort and lp and usually sidechain to a kick. Nothing fancy.

I thought I was the only one like this.

Audacity is nice too mention here to, because unlike (most) synths it wont produe a charactared/colored wave, unless you want5 it too.

Basic A wrote:

abZ wrote:

glottis5 wrote:Why would you even use massive for a sub anyway? Just use Audacity to make a sine wave, that way you don't have to have a giant VST open for one extremely simple sound.

I wouldn't either. I have a couple samples I like and I will load them into Live's sampler. I like using pitch envelopes, sometimes lfo on the volume, sometimes as Sharm suggested distort and lp and usually sidechain to a kick. Nothing fancy.

I thought I was the only one like this.

Audacity is nice too mention here to, because unlike (most) synths it wont produe a charactared/colored wave, unless you want5 it too.

Yeah I still use Sound Forge same thing there. You only have to do that once tho. Just remember where you stuck the wav. I do all kinds of stuff with the sampler. You can essentially use it as a one oscillator synth. Can do with other wave forms not just sine's or even pure tones. Grab a vocal sample and just loop a few cycles. Limitless really.

POND LIFE wrote:im using limiters more recently and find they're a good enough quick fix for getting a strong sub. remember the volume within massive makes a difference to the strength of the sound so make sure that's turned up. sine / lp saw + limiter = can't go wrong pretty much.

Limiting a sine is just waveshaping and adding in extra harmonics. So it's not stronger, it just has more harmonic content, similar to a saw. If you actually want a clean sub that won't interfere with your kick and muddy your mix there's nothing to even do to a sine. Anything that sounds 'Phat' is just adding harmonics. The only thing you can really do is adjust gain envelopes and tune that shit low. It's not meant to take up space it's mean to give you the low rumble without fucking your drums. I don't think compression is really useful at all, as it's a wave with constant volume apart from changes in envelope. If you want to change dynamics, do it at the envelope level.
I suppose if you have an atypical mix with a high passed kick and no concern for the muddiness of your low lows, some harmonics will give it some beef but for the most part you're going to be trying to keep things from clashing as much as possible to have a clean low end. A single low badass cycle is going to be much more effective and powerful than a bunch of low frequencies mushing together.

/my coupla pennies

It's nice to step out of the crystal palace into the swamps every now and again.

/my two diminutive units of time/energy

Just don't forget ya boots if you're going wading through mud!

All depends on the artist and sound of course. If you're using a sine wave for that heavy boom that fills up the sub range then keep er clean. If you're not worried about playing it out loud and having a mushy low end, then by all means fuck with it if it fits the creative direction you're going for. Bit of harmonics makes for a more interesting sound but makes for a harder balance between kick, sub and any other bass above that that might be being crowded. If the sub is going to be more in focus with a consequently less cluttered mix, a bare sine wave is going to be pretty boring in a lot of cases.

As usual, there's no set formula but keep in mind how crowded your frequency range is. In mixing you have to sacrifice making every individual track full and interesting in order to gain overall balance. I remember starting to work with music and thinking if I added bass to everything the track would have awesome bass

Everything has it's part and your job is to figure out what that is and emphasize it while letting other aspects do their part. In an ideal world, you'd be able to have everything be "more" all at the same time but unfortunately the world doesn't go to up to 11. Bass is especially vulnerable to fucking because of its lack of directionality, longer wave cycle, etc. But if you want to fuck it for creative reasons, then it's really easy

Kinda gone off topic a bit but I might chance saying:
Sine too weak? Take off all the processing for more focused, accurate, laser beam style.
Sine not interesting enough? Use something other than a sine or process it into something different.
All depends on whether you're using it as a utility for frequency balance or an element with more sonic character.