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Project EX wrote:

Sharmaji wrote:single sine wave, no compression, no eq.

it's really that simple

This x1000000000000000000000000

I used to layer crazy amounts of waves and compress and eq and everything to try and get a fat sub. One day I gave up and used a single sine wave, best thing I ever did!

Also slide it through notes, even a few octaves to get a nice scanner bass that hits resonances of everything in your room, using either FLs brilliant slide function or the lesser portamento.

gonna agree with those saying keep it simple. but id still suggest checking out waves Rbass plug in or crysonics newb. Rbass is very handy for turning a sine into thunderous punchy sub


J

Brisance wrote:

stereotactic wrote: Surely as a single frequency, it would be difficult make one sine worse than another? It's a pure tone.

That's the case. Massive's is not a pure tone.

Oh god, not this again. Yes it is. We've been through it before; I ran some tests, and any harmonics in Massive's sine are at something like 100dB quieter than the fundamental, at most (I just reformatted and haven't reinstalled Komplete yet so I can't check right now, but as far as I remember it was something like that). Check it out for yourself on a spectrum analyser if you like.

That said, I'd agree that using Massive for a simple sub bass is a waste of CPU.

Hi there

Simple sines are a terrible (ok... too harsh, but still) way to make sub bass. The reason your sub doesn't sound warm (like the pros) is probably BECAUSE you are using a simple sine wave to make it. They are an alright starting point, but in order to make them sound good you have to distort and then filter (or at least run them through warming effects), at which point they aren't sines anymore. So stop calling them sines. Distorted sines aren't sines, and calling them simple sines just leads to confusion. Also, most of the plugs that produce good sub using sines are not pure sines either.

My suggestion: go old school and use a combination of saws, triangles, squares, and yes even sines, and then low pass them (not necessarily all at once). You will get much better results.

Also, read this: http://www.techno-dnb.com/forum/view...php?f=6&t=2246

Best tutorial on Sub I've ever found... highly recommended.

Here's an example of a track of mine that has mad sub - not made with a sine - it's a shit master (mine - although we have a real master now just not on that soundcloud page), and even in the crappy master the sub is huge: http://www.dubstepforum.com/0045-tdbz-r ... 43801.html

(sorry for jumping in to this convo - I'm new hear, and I was looking for some info on recreating digital distortion basses - not trying to step on any toes, but I found this post and it demanded a comment)

0045

dj0045 wrote:
Also, read this: http://www.techno-dnb.com/forum/view...php?f=6&t=2246

Best tutorial on Sub I've ever found... highly recommended.

Dead link

wayoftheworld wrote:something else to consider is how the other sounds, and the arrangement in general, affect ones perception of the sub. i think a producer who really knows how to properly build and release energy is going to have bigger sounding subs than a lesser producer/arrangement, even if both producers are using the same sine wave and processing.

Keeping the other instruments from having low end freqs that allow for phase cancellation with your sub is huge.

JFK wrote:

dj0045 wrote:
Also, read this: http://www.techno-dnb.com/forum/view...php?f=6&t=2246

Best tutorial on Sub I've ever found... highly recommended.

Dead link

It's working for me... Try this though - same link
http://tinyurl.com/2bgh2wa

best thing for subs.... white noise baby!

single sine wave in massive eq the fuck out of it with the onboard eq and boost it to as loud as it can go without clipping

dj0045 wrote:Hi there

Simple sines are a terrible (ok... too harsh, but still) way to make sub bass. The reason your sub doesn't sound warm (like the pros) is probably BECAUSE you are using a simple sine wave to make it.

No offense, but that's bullshit.

static_cast wrote:

dj0045 wrote:Hi there

Simple sines are a terrible (ok... too harsh, but still) way to make sub bass. The reason your sub doesn't sound warm (like the pros) is probably BECAUSE you are using a simple sine wave to make it.

No offense, but that's bullshit.

lol... well I was expecting a response along these lines (serves me right for bothering to help).

to the OP: try out a simple sine wave (and see how it does in your track), then try adding some more harmonics (triangle, saw, square, etc...) and filtering them so that most of the highs are gone. Which one sounds better?

Always remember, there is a huge difference between internet consensus and what people actually do when making tracks. It's all about warmth and power, and sines just don't get you there as quickly (or IMO as well).

Let your ears be the judge.

l8

dj0045 wrote:

static_cast wrote:

dj0045 wrote:Hi there

Simple sines are a terrible (ok... too harsh, but still) way to make sub bass. The reason your sub doesn't sound warm (like the pros) is probably BECAUSE you are using a simple sine wave to make it.

No offense, but that's bullshit.

lol... well I was expecting a response along these lines (serves me right for bothering to help).

to the OP: try out a simple sine wave (and see how it does in your track), then try adding some more harmonics (triangle, saw, square, etc...) and filtering them so that most of the highs are gone. Which one sounds better?

Always remember, there is a huge difference between internet consensus and what people actually do when making tracks. It's all about warmth and power, and sines just don't get you there as quickly (or IMO as well).

Let your ears be the judge.

l8

That just means you are shit using and mixing them down.

dj0045 wrote:

static_cast wrote:

dj0045 wrote:Hi there

Simple sines are a terrible (ok... too harsh, but still) way to make sub bass. The reason your sub doesn't sound warm (like the pros) is probably BECAUSE you are using a simple sine wave to make it.

No offense, but that's bullshit.

lol... well I was expecting a response along these lines (serves me right for bothering to help).

to the OP: try out a simple sine wave (and see how it does in your track), then try adding some more harmonics (triangle, saw, square, etc...) and filtering them so that most of the highs are gone. Which one sounds better?

Neither. They sound different. You can make "warm" sub bass using either; warmth is a totally subjective term and when it comes to sub-bass, IMHO the listener's perception of warmth depends at least as much on the context of the bass part (ie the rest of the mix) as on the bass itself.

I don't wanna come across as dogmatic - of course you can add harmonics, filter a complex waveform, saturate, whatever, and get a great bass sound too. But to say you can't make a great sounding track with a sub bass consisting of just a sine wave is simply bullshit. End of story.

ok man... sure

bye

dj0045 wrote:ok man... sure

bye

He wasnt saying you were wrong jsut that you were misleading.

static_cast wrote:

dj0045 wrote:

static_cast wrote:

dj0045 wrote:Hi there

Simple sines are a terrible (ok... too harsh, but still) way to make sub bass. The reason your sub doesn't sound warm (like the pros) is probably BECAUSE you are using a simple sine wave to make it.

No offense, but that's bullshit.

lol... well I was expecting a response along these lines (serves me right for bothering to help).

to the OP: try out a simple sine wave (and see how it does in your track), then try adding some more harmonics (triangle, saw, square, etc...) and filtering them so that most of the highs are gone. Which one sounds better?

Neither. They sound different. You can make "warm" sub bass using either; warmth is a totally subjective term and when it comes to sub-bass, IMHO the listener's perception of warmth depends at least as much on the context of the bass part (ie the rest of the mix) as on the bass itself.

I don't wanna come across as dogmatic - of course you can add harmonics, filter a complex waveform, saturate, whatever, and get a great bass sound too. But to say you can't make a great sounding track with a sub bass consisting of just a sine wave is simply bullshit. End of story.

Listen to the track in my sig, the entire bass is just a single sine wave in albino...I've had serious feedback about the power of that sub, and it's just one sine wave...

i do normal put loads of overdrive on a sine and then low pass it, i dunno whether it sounds better cos its louder (does overdrive increase the volume?) or whether its the slight extra harmonics that beef it up.

also how can you get a nice heavy sub like in some ramadanman tunes, and maybe it isnt a heavy sub but in mosca's square one, it doesnt sound like a sine, but i dont really know how to explain how it does sound, kinda i dunno moves more air, it might be just extra harmonics from overdrive and not low passed as much?


and with ramadanman, his bass sounds quite loud in the mix, but when i increase the bass in the mix, it makes the track seem more dull and bass heavy, how can you overcome this?

The philosophy of sine sub bass vs waveforms with more harmonics is similar to the situation of a single nail or a bed of nails. The bed of nails is going to be more comfortable and occupy a greater range, but if you want the bass to pierce as much as possible, go with the single nail (bare sine) The pure bass tone is much more powerful when there's lots of space around it to punch through. Also any deep bass harmonics are going to eat up mad headroom so the less you can have down there while still maintaining power the better.

You can get warmth in a mix in many other ways, as Static mentioned it's all relative as well. If you have a 50 hz sub and saturate it, the first harmonic is going to pop up at 100 hz aka "HAI GUIZE I'M IN UR KICK RANGE FUCKIN WIT UR BASS CLARITY" Next will be 150 and 200, which will also most likely be destructive and muddy things up. If you need more warmth in a bassline you can always generate some lows to tuck in high passed under your main bass.

I think this subject causes a lot of confusion because it's not clear whether people are talking about a sub bass as in something that follows the notes of your main bass an octave down to give it more low end rumble or as in a very deep bass that is on its own as the main bass in the track. Because in the latter case it's probably going to need more high frequency content putting in (via distortion, using a non sine waveform, whatever) to make it sit up on its own, whereas in the former that's probably going to be a bit pointless...