Dubstepforum.com

Hardware doesn't suit everyone

/THREAD

Most dubstep does sound pretty shit but it's all genres now really. There is still as much quality out there as ever but it's masked by a grip of amatuer stuff. I think most people spend what they can on gear. A lot of us are buying better monitors and computer hardware instead of synths. I knew a lot of analog fetish people back in the day that had rooms full of synths but didn't have anything proper to listen to it on. The game has changed a bit. There needs to be more self quality checkers these days I think. I can't tell you how many people reach out to me and say hey I want to get this tune signed, it's my first one, just started making tunes 4 months ago or something to that effect. Get the fuck out of here. I don't know why people want to embarrass themselves that way. The thing is if you are diligent you can get that stuff signed because there are a crap load of labels with no quality control. If you sign with these guys, it doesn't mean you have arrived. And that stuff will still be there even if you do get respected and people will be able to look back and laugh at you. I always recommend to people that they just keep working at it quietly until you are undeniably sick but people don't want that. They want their name in lights without having to work for it, pay dues. So you end up with this mess.

I dont really think the process you go through in practical terms has much real relevence to the quality of music. Burial was using soundfordge, its not even a proper daw, never mind hardware. Didnt matter, his albums still sold more and sounded better than the guys with hardware coming out of every hole. I think the problem is musical education, and I dont mean formal, although that helps greatly. Theres a lot of dubstep being made by people with very little musical scope or understanding. Uk underground dance music is generally defined by rhythm, everything outside of the speed of the beat is completely free for the artist to bring in whatever influences they have. But if people have never listened to soul or jazz, metal, classical, funk, reggae, jungle, hip hop... whatever genres, in any real depth beyond the pop version of said genre they see on Mtv and all they really listen to day by day is shit dubstep and drum n bass then they dont have anything to bring to the table. Thats where you get the crap, stale music creeping in, generic samplepack bollocks. I think its all in the mind, youll get something worth while out of any medium if youre a proper artist.

i'd really start taking the whole burial just using soundforge thing with a grain of salt, just like you would an aphex twin interview

In The Shadows wrote:I dont really think the process you go through in practical terms has much real relevence to the quality of music. Burial was using soundfordge, its not even a proper daw, never mind hardware. Didnt matter, his albums still sold more and sounded better than the guys with hardware coming out of every hole. I think the problem is musical education, and I dont mean formal, although that helps greatly. Theres a lot of dubstep being made by people with very little musical scope or understanding. Uk underground dance music is generally defined by rhythm, everything outside of the speed of the beat is completely free for the artist to bring in whatever influences they have. But if people have never listened to soul or jazz, metal, classical, funk, reggae, jungle, hip hop... whatever genres, in any real depth beyond the pop version of said genre they see on Mtv and all they really listen to day by day is shit dubstep and drum n bass then they dont have anything to bring to the table. Thats where you get the crap, stale music creeping in, generic samplepack bollocks. I think its all in the mind, youll get something worth while out of any medium if youre a proper artist.

Yup.

Here we go again. List it out. Dubstep's 99 problems.

What's worse is the inbreeding leads to the folks that legitimately bring something to the proverbial table wanting to distance themselves from it leaving even worse shit to dece ratio. Have already seen this pattern from many other genres. DNB actually seems to be weathering the storm and it seems to my ears to be getting healthier again. Will dubstep be able to weather it? It is hard to say but I think the genre is having hard times right now. Not in the sense of popularity because it's bigger than ever but I have a feeling most of the stuff being made right now will prove to be rubbish in the future. I have always felt like it follows DNB's cycle 10 years off. If I am right then the liquid stage is soon upon us lol. I digress.

abZ wrote:Most dubstep does sound pretty shit but it's all genres now really. There is still as much quality out there as ever but it's masked by a grip of amatuer stuff. I think most people spend what they can on gear. A lot of us are buying better monitors and computer hardware instead of synths. I knew a lot of analog fetish people back in the day that had rooms full of synths but didn't have anything proper to listen to it on. The game has changed a bit. There needs to be more self quality checkers these days I think. I can't tell you how many people reach out to me and say hey I want to get this tune signed, it's my first one, just started making tunes 4 months ago or something to that effect. Get the fuck out of here. I don't know why people want to embarrass themselves that way. The thing is if you are diligent you can get that stuff signed because there are a crap load of labels with no quality control. If you sign with these guys, it doesn't mean you have arrived. And that stuff will still be there even if you do get respected and people will be able to look back and laugh at you. I always recommend to people that they just keep working at it quietly until you are undeniably sick but people don't want that. They want their name in lights without having to work for it, pay dues. So you end up with this mess.

You're absolutely right.

That's also why I don't see why it's such a concern with all these kids lining up to make excision sounds and such. They aren't going to be recognized for it because anyone who has searched "dubstep" on youtube knows how rampant those sound bytes are, and no one's gonna pay for it or pay to see it.

deadly habit wrote:i'd really start taking the whole burial just using soundforge thing with a grain of salt, just like you would an aphex twin interview

Yeah since it is pretty much impossible to do the way he describes it. Had to have used Acid or something in conjunction. I think it actually is possible on versions that came out post his first LP.

abZ wrote:

deadly habit wrote:i'd really start taking the whole burial just using soundforge thing with a grain of salt, just like you would an aphex twin interview

Yeah since it is pretty much impossible to do the way he describes it. Had to have used Acid or something in conjunction. I think it actually is possible on versions that came out post his first LP.

how is it not possible to arrange samples in sound forge?

hahahahahaha, over half my life i've spent probably thousands on keyboards, guitars, basses, amplifiers, effects, drum machines, various boxes... i think i've more than earned the right to make tunes on my laptop. if software sounds 'flat' to you, maybe you're not doing it right? learn shit before you talk shit

I think thia OP is generalising a lot.

fractal wrote:

abZ wrote:

deadly habit wrote:i'd really start taking the whole burial just using soundforge thing with a grain of salt, just like you would an aphex twin interview

Yeah since it is pretty much impossible to do the way he describes it. Had to have used Acid or something in conjunction. I think it actually is possible on versions that came out post his first LP.

how is it not possible to arrange samples in sound forge?

you can it's just not realistic
hell i did this ages ago using cool edit, a shitty casio keyboard and hammerhead beatstation and it was a pain in the ass
http://deadlyhabit.tentativerecordings. ... y%20AM.mp3

abZ wrote:
What's worse is the inbreeding leads to the folks that legitimately bring something to the proverbial table wanting to distance themselves from it leaving even worse shit to dece ratio. Have already seen this pattern from many other genres. DNB actually seems to be weathering the storm and it seems to my ears to be getting healthier again. Will dubstep be able to weather it? It is hard to say but I think the genre is having hard times right now. Not in the sense of popularity because it's bigger than ever but I have a feeling most of the stuff being made right now will prove to be rubbish in the future. I have always felt like it follows DNB's cycle 10 years off. If I am right then the liquid stage is soon upon us lol. I digress.

haha, couldnt agree more. I have thought exactly the same thing! Jump up dubstep waaaa waaaa waaaaa. yueeegh.

AllNightDayDream wrote:Synthesizers are out, I believe turntables have their days numbered, but controllers are INNIT to winnit.

NOOOO turntables will never die i will make sure of it and shoot any one who onli uses cdjs, plus vinyl has a betta feel to it and i think it easyer to control

Humouring this thread...
I have said previously, I have a mate (more of a mate of a mate really) who has a moog voyager, did have a virus polar, a neve eq rack and other high end gear and he is FUCKING CLUELESS about what he is doing with any of it, he didn't even know that the ~ on his keyboards refered to a sine wave and his music sounds like shit both sonically and musically.
Flipside, You could simply multisample an analogue synth or go in deep with a good softsynth and modulation, map it's controls to a midi controller and record on the fly without ever having to touch automation and 9 times out of 10, the listener would be non-the wiser it was software. So cliché time... It is not what you have, it's what you do with it.

In this day and age, more and more people are turning to virtual instruments because they way surpass the limitations of hardware.

As someone already said, you could have all the gear but with no idea.

Also, with the advent of high quality 24 bit audio, digital has also surpassed analogue for its depth and frequency range.
I do agree its nice to get your hands on a hardware synth from time to time, but actually, I can do more with digital and it sounds better (to me).
The reason analogue is sought after is not because of its sound quality, but because of its characteristics and nuances that make them unique.

If your talking about a tube compressor on the other hand, thats a whole different bag o nuts.

abZ wrote:

In The Shadows wrote:I dont really think the process you go through in practical terms has much real relevence to the quality of music. Burial was using soundfordge, its not even a proper daw, never mind hardware. Didnt matter, his albums still sold more and sounded better than the guys with hardware coming out of every hole. I think the problem is musical education, and I dont mean formal, although that helps greatly. Theres a lot of dubstep being made by people with very little musical scope or understanding. Uk underground dance music is generally defined by rhythm, everything outside of the speed of the beat is completely free for the artist to bring in whatever influences they have. But if people have never listened to soul or jazz, metal, classical, funk, reggae, jungle, hip hop... whatever genres, in any real depth beyond the pop version of said genre they see on Mtv and all they really listen to day by day is shit dubstep and drum n bass then they dont have anything to bring to the table. Thats where you get the crap, stale music creeping in, generic samplepack bollocks. I think its all in the mind, youll get something worth while out of any medium if youre a proper artist.

Yup.

Here we go again. List it out. Dubstep's 99 problems.

What's worse is the inbreeding leads to the folks that legitimately bring something to the proverbial table wanting to distance themselves from it leaving even worse shit to dece ratio. Have already seen this pattern from many other genres. DNB actually seems to be weathering the storm and it seems to my ears to be getting healthier again. Will dubstep be able to weather it? It is hard to say but I think the genre is having hard times right now. Not in the sense of popularity because it's bigger than ever but I have a feeling most of the stuff being made right now will prove to be rubbish in the future. I have always felt like it follows DNB's cycle 10 years off. If I am right then the liquid stage is soon upon us lol. I digress.

A lot of things are having life breathed into them at the moment, garage, DnB, techno and even some good house been knocking about. Dubstep will come back around once the mainstream gets bored of it, which lets face it wont be too long, pop tires of things quickly. I have to say though, I really can't dig all this 'drumstep' nonsense and noisia style DnB. Eugh, the real gems in DnB are the stuff hospital and med school records are putting out and people like netsky etc. Proper nice vibes. Oh and Instramental etc are doing some really interesting things too.

mildly interesting thread. the fact is digital (in terms of performance and felxibility) has far surpased ananlog equipment, instead of paying thousands on hardware with the best quality components and the best tolerances etc all you have to worry about now is getting some 1s and 0s arranged in an order that sounds good which - as you can imagine - doesn't cost too much.

fractal wrote:

abZ wrote:

deadly habit wrote:i'd really start taking the whole burial just using soundforge thing with a grain of salt, just like you would an aphex twin interview

Yeah since it is pretty much impossible to do the way he describes it. Had to have used Acid or something in conjunction. I think it actually is possible on versions that came out post his first LP.

how is it not possible to arrange samples in sound forge?

Tell me how to layer sounds on an older version of sounds forge.

abZ wrote: Tell me how to layer sounds on an older version of sounds forge.

you copy a sound to the clipboard, select another sound and press the little mix button on the top bar. Theres some options in there, volume of the clip board and the original etc, some other bits.

Im not sure if Id put Burial in the same box as Aphex Twin, hes worked with a lot of other people now and any of them who have mentioned methods say he used soundforge.

abZ wrote:Most dubstep does sound pretty shit but it's all genres now really.There is still as much quality out there as ever but it's masked by a grip of amatuer stuff.

This is a big generalization, completely unfounded and untrue and it's based on an assumption that amateur stuff is of a lesser quality when realistically there's a lot of amateur stuff the completely shits all over the 'professional' stuff. If I spend the day clicking randomly on soundcloud, myspace, or even just here in dsf, I'll hear far more good tunes than bad equally I'll hear far more well produced tunes than bad and ultimately I'll hear a lot more ground breaking or unique stuff in amongst the amateur material than I'll hear in the 'professional' bin.

abZ wrote:I can't tell you how many people reach out to me and say hey I want to get this tune signed, it's my first one, just started making tunes 4 months ago or something to that effect. Get the fuck out of here. I don't know why people want to embarrass themselves that way. And that stuff will still be there even if you do get respected and people will be able to look back and laugh at you.

Maybe because it doesn't embarrass them? Who cares if they want their first tune signed? What's wrong with that? As for the laughter thing, how do you know that? They might laugh, but equally they might look back and say "oh wow, he was shit once too, I guess there is hope for me" and if they do look at your old stuff and laugh, who the hell cares? That shit is only embarrassing when YOU make it embarrassing, if somebody laughs at you, laugh with them = problem solved, no embarrassment. If you're easily embarrassed you probably shouldn't be trying to make something out of music in the first place because you're gonna have to deal with a fair bit of it at some point.

abZ wrote:They want their name in lights without having to work for it, pay dues.

Again this is a bit of an assumption, you don't know how much other people invest in music in terms of the work/emotion/effort/time/sacrifice they put in.

Rather than you actually having an objective viewpoint on this issue it sounds more like there's a specific group of people you don't like, because of their tastes or attitudes, and that's being projected into your views on music...

abZ wrote: What's worse is the inbreeding leads to the folks that legitimately bring something to the proverbial table wanting to distance themselves from it leaving even worse shit to dece ratio. Have already seen this pattern from many other genres. DNB actually seems to be weathering the storm and it seems to my ears to be getting healthier again. Will dubstep be able to weather it? It is hard to say but I think the genre is having hard times right now. Not in the sense of popularity because it's bigger than ever but I have a feeling most of the stuff being made right now will prove to be rubbish in the future. I have always felt like it follows DNB's cycle 10 years off. If I am right then the liquid stage is soon upon us lol. I digress.

This isn't something that's exclusive to dubstep, here's what happens in every genre ever:

1., Small group of people (group A) invent genre
2., Small group of people (group B) listen to genre and like it
3., Small group of people (group B) start contributing to genre - genre gets attention.
4., Larger group of people (group C) contribute in different way
5., Group B start war with group C over what genre should sound like
6., While group B and C bicker large labels who control what's going on in pop take small elements of genre and create new mainstream friendly genre
7., Massive group of people (group D)hear mainstream friendly version of genre and start to piss off group B and C by contributing mainstream friendly influences to the genre.
8., Group B,C and D all bicker and moan at each other, group B desperately try to claw their way back to 5 years ago when the genre was "fresh" while group C keep doing what they've always done and group D act like arrogant idiots who 'want it all for nothing'
9., Group A leave genre, sick of everyone, and start innovating somewhere else.
10., Group A is replaced by an amalgamation of talented people from group B, C and D. (Group E)
11., Group E slightly re-invents genre or create branches of sub-genres.

Points 2-11 of the cycle repeat until the genre is pretty much dead and even new releases from the genre are instantly placed in the "oldies/classic" sections of your local music store.

No genre 'weathers' anything. If a genre looks like it's weathered something then it's probably just passed through point 8 and the genre is about to become even more divided by new sub-genres (the idea of more sub-genres might make a genre sound stronger, but sub genres weaken any genre by splitting its fan base into factions and eventually the sub-genres develop their own sub-genres which are so far removed from the original genre they came from that they just become a new genre entirely).

Anyway, It's a natural progression they all must go through because of the simple fact that people aren't all the same and don't all appreciate music in the same way or for the same reasons.

The point is, it's impossible to escape and there is no point moaning because negativity only contributes to speeding up the cycle and killing the genre you so love.

Don't get me wrong abZ, I respect you and as a forum member you contribute a lot. Just don't think you're right, or objectively speaking, on a lot of these points...

narcissus wrote:hahahahahaha, over half my life i've spent probably thousands on keyboards, guitars, basses, amplifiers, effects, drum machines, various boxes... i think i've more than earned the right to make tunes on my laptop. if software sounds 'flat' to you, maybe you're not doing it right? learn shit before you talk shit

I've spent fuck all, you don't have to spend anything to earn some magical right to make music.

Making music isn't a 'right' you have to earn by proving your worth, spending money on gear, or liking the right music or having the right attitude.

Everybody has the right to make music, regardless of how shit their attitude how little they put into it or how terrible their tastes. Props to you though for investing so much in what you love.