Dubstepforum.com

scspkr99 wrote:so the alternative is that you discriminate against those that don't speak the language?

look up the word discrimination

a large part of the blame should go to the people who feed these kinds of discussions on a LARGE scale.
No 2 people on this planet have the same exact morals, principals, conventions, traditions, wants, needs, likes, dislikes, or beliefs.

Think of your best mate. surely there's things you don't see eye to eye on. whether it be major or just a preference like coke or pepsi.

When people talk about these kinds of things and try to create group/mob thinking the obvious end result is discourse, discussion, and argumentation ad infinitum. Not one point will ever end the discussion due to the fact that there will ALWAYS be someone who doesn't agree who will cause more to not agree and so on.

What nicenice said makes a lot of sense and then when things are taken down to a one on one level it becomes much simpler.

The law won't apply to EU citizens, so the people most likely to be affected – as the Home Office has acknowledged – are those coming from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. In these countries, the people least likely to know English, which is widely spoken among the countries' urban elites, are those who live in impoverished rural areas. The right to marry and establish a family is protected by the European convention on human rights, but the government is effectively telling Britons: you can marry who you like, as long as they're not poor and uneducated.

In any case, a new law is unnecessary because we already require immigrants to speak English. Those who marry UK citizens are given spousal visas, which are only valid for two years. After that they must pass a test on life and language in the UK before being given indefinite leave to remain.

If the coalition wants to ensure that new arrivals quickly integrate into British society then it should do something about the sharp decline in provision of adult education that took place under the last government. In 2007, free English (ESOL) lessons were abolished for those not on benefits, meaning that everyone, from cleaners on minimum wage to doctors and lawyers, now has to pay upwards of £900 for a full-time English course.

This, and the immigration issue, raises questions about the role Britain wants to play in the world to come. In the face of economic uncertainty, does it pull up the drawbridge and flick two fingers at the foreigners, condemning itself to an isolated future? Or do we learn how to integrate with the majority of the planet, which does not speak English, and extend our solidarity to those caught up in the whirlwind of globalisation?

there was a man (an asian man who moved to england only a few years before) who ran a post office in notts and decided that he was not going to serve any of his customers who couldn't speak english. word spread to the local paper and bbc. his defense was that they weren't making an effort and he had the right to refuse anyone service so he did. royal mail pulled his license...

Of the 900,000 Britons who live in Spain, how many speak reasonable Spanish? Do all of the 500,000 British people living in France speak French?

firky wrote:Of the 900,000 Britons who live in Spain, how many speak reasonable Spanish? Do all of the 500,000 British people living in France speak French?

a few and probably not.

scspkr99 wrote:so the alternative is that you discriminate against those that don't speak the language?

1. Claiming benefits means that you are receiving help because you are unfortunately not able to support yourself via employment, so everyone working in society all chips in to help you out until you are back in employment and then you can do the same to help others who are in the situation you just found yourself in but...
2. How can you apply for a job if you don't speak the language the job requires you to speak? or even read the application form?, are you being discriminated for that? No. You don't meets the requirements so how can you be seeking achievable employment in a country when you don't speak the native language, then to receive benefit even though part of the agreement is that you are seeking achievable employment is illogical is it not?.
If you have learning difficulties and are unable to learn another language that is a different matter but the native language should be encouraged if you live in that country...END

man... the sooner the whole world learns Chinese the better!

then I can order my takeaways with no problems!!!

!!chea

Freedom of speech isn't limited to what you say, but how you say it too. I don't think everyone should be expected to speak the nation's language. Effort must come voluntarily. Not through coercion.

I just don't think the government should go out of their way to help people who don't speak the language either. "Want full benefits of living in this country? Fine, learn the language, 'cause then we can help you more easily. Oh, you don't wanna learn the language? Fine, but don't expect us to translate everything for you. Oh, you're in trouble now? Well, too bad".

People retain the right to do whatever the fuck they want without harming others. I don't care about 'integrating' or 'assimilating' into society. How integrated are most people, anyway? Individuals differ from each other far more than various groups of people do. A lot of my morals and thoughts differ as much from the next Dutch guy as Dutch morality differs from, let's say, Turkish, but you don't hear people complaining about me.

To me, the best fix would be if the government itself stopped viewing as groups, and more as individuals.

try living in bradford and keighley, it's not just accepted, it's encouraged.

the thing is, the whole 'muslim dress' thing is a cultural thing, not a koran thing. many muslims have told me so.

when the british live anywhere en masse, like ex=pats - they get more british in some kind of odd defence, i think all cultures do this to some extent, and the full dress and code is exactly the same.

i grew up around coventry and brum, which had a large proportion of all races, and i don't remember seeing people on the streets looking like they do now, so it's happened since i was a kid. that's the bit i find odd to be honest. but more in a 'i wonder why' way, than 'how shocking' way.

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:so the alternative is that you discriminate against those that don't speak the language?

look up the word discrimination

1a : to make a distinction <discriminate among historical sources> b : to use good judgment
2: to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit <discriminate in favor of your friends> <discriminate against a certain nationality>

appears to me that if we specifically prevent the distribution of Housing Benefit or JSA forms in a language other than English we are efffectively discriminating as per point 2. There aren't grounds for discriminating allowances / entitlements based upon the applicants ability to speak English. We are not going to prevent people who don't speak English from paying tax so we can't prevent them from claiming those entitlements they have earned.

There are no grounds for excluding people from benefit based on language so the options are either provide a translation service or provide those forms in a variety of languages. Encouraging people to speak the language of the country in which they reside is obviously worthwhile seeking to exclude them from their entitlements if they don't is not.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:so the alternative is that you discriminate against those that don't speak the language?

1. Claiming benefits means that you are receiving help because you are unfortunately not able to support yourself via employment, so everyone working in society all chips in to help you out until you are back in employment and then you can do the same to help others who are in the situation you just found yourself in but...
2. How can you apply for a job if you don't speak the language the job requires you to speak? or even read the application form?, are you being discriminated for that? No. You don't meets the requirements so how can you be seeking achievable employment in a country when you don't speak the native language, then to receive benefit even though part of the agreement is that you are seeking achievable employment is illogical is it not?.
If you have learning difficulties and are unable to learn another language that is a different matter but the native language should be encouraged if you live in that country...END

do you actually know how the benefits system works and what is required before you receive entitlement to them?

I used to think that immigrants should speak english and integrate more with society. Now I just don't give a fuck.

Does it stop you living your life? No.

If anything those who can't or don't speak english are at a disadvantage in some respects.

But why learn the native language if you can function and live perfectly well without it? The same applies for british ex-pats living abroad.

scspkr99 wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:so the alternative is that you discriminate against those that don't speak the language?

1. Claiming benefits means that you are receiving help because you are unfortunately not able to support yourself via employment, so everyone working in society all chips in to help you out until you are back in employment and then you can do the same to help others who are in the situation you just found yourself in but...
2. How can you apply for a job if you don't speak the language the job requires you to speak? or even read the application form?, are you being discriminated for that? No. You don't meets the requirements so how can you be seeking achievable employment in a country when you don't speak the native language, then to receive benefit even though part of the agreement is that you are seeking achievable employment is illogical is it not?.
If you have learning difficulties and are unable to learn another language that is a different matter but the native language should be encouraged if you live in that country...END

do you actually know how the benefits system works and what is required before you receive entitlement to them?

No, not at all.

nicenice wrote:Problem is, from what I've seen, muslims only see what other people think of them through newspapers such as the sun & the daily mail which are mildly racist and damning towards them. They never see what people actually think, which is mostly, they don't care. This causes them to become paranoid and withdrawn into their community. Most people I know aren't racist or hold racist convictions towards them, but when they interact the muslims often come across as hostile and and arrogant because they stay within their community and it only entrenches certain ideas into their head.

you hate them.

racism against white people is definitely more socially acceptable and funnier.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:so the alternative is that you discriminate against those that don't speak the language?

1. Claiming benefits means that you are receiving help because you are unfortunately not able to support yourself via employment, so everyone working in society all chips in to help you out until you are back in employment and then you can do the same to help others who are in the situation you just found yourself in but...
2. How can you apply for a job if you don't speak the language the job requires you to speak? or even read the application form?, are you being discriminated for that? No. You don't meets the requirements so how can you be seeking achievable employment in a country when you don't speak the native language, then to receive benefit even though part of the agreement is that you are seeking achievable employment is illogical is it not?.
If you have learning difficulties and are unable to learn another language that is a different matter but the native language should be encouraged if you live in that country...END

do you actually know how the benefits system works and what is required before you receive entitlement to them?

No, not at all.

well given that entitlements are earned we should really allow people who have earned them to claim them irrespective of their proficiency in a language. You may also want to consider that people who have enough of a grasp of the language to get by may not be strong enough to fill in forms that can be pretty complex in a 2nd or 3rd language and providing forms in languages other than English has the benefit of reducing the number of appeals and reclaims

scspkr99 wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:so the alternative is that you discriminate against those that don't speak the language?

1. Claiming benefits means that you are receiving help because you are unfortunately not able to support yourself via employment, so everyone working in society all chips in to help you out until you are back in employment and then you can do the same to help others who are in the situation you just found yourself in but...
2. How can you apply for a job if you don't speak the language the job requires you to speak? or even read the application form?, are you being discriminated for that? No. You don't meets the requirements so how can you be seeking achievable employment in a country when you don't speak the native language, then to receive benefit even though part of the agreement is that you are seeking achievable employment is illogical is it not?.
If you have learning difficulties and are unable to learn another language that is a different matter but the native language should be encouraged if you live in that country...END

do you actually know how the benefits system works and what is required before you receive entitlement to them?

No, not at all.

well given that entitlements are earned we should really allow people who have earned them to claim them irrespective of their proficiency in a language. You may also want to consider that people who have enough of a grasp of the language to get by may not be strong enough to fill in forms that can be pretty complex in a 2nd or 3rd language and providing forms in languages other than English has the benefit of reducing the number of appeals and reclaims

I wish every1 in my country would speak Maori...

damn English & their treaty!!

!!chea