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lyons238 wrote:btw do you tend to use different types of scales in one song?? like would you ever have like a c major bass line and a g minor melody? or would that just be shenanigans? lol

i usually tend to stick with all minor or all major scales in 1 song depending on what type im going for

I don't know what the 'rules' are but I tend to only use one scale per song. There are exceptions though.

lyons238 wrote:

paravrais wrote:

lyons238 wrote:check the bible for scales and shit...

i personally either get a scale in my head and start working with that. or i just randomly start banging out notes that sound good to me...

musical theory musical shmeory

Yeah it's best not to think about theory while your writing the first part of your track I find. Once I've written a melody I'll move up and down the keyboard and find the rest of the notes that sound good with it and then work from there. The benefit of knowing theory is you don't have to spend that extra time feeling out what scale and key you are in cos you should already be able to tell.

yeah unfortunately i suck lol so i either keep looking at scales and try to make something within it. or i just completely wing it and do what sounds good to me. completely disregarding musical theory.

btw do you tend to use different types of scales in one song?? like would you ever have like a c major bass line and a g minor melody? or would that just be shenanigans? lol

i usually tend to stick with all minor or all major scales in 1 song depending on what type im going for

Whatever sounds good should work, but I usually stick with one scale.

one scale per song unlless you modulate- in which case its best to go to a related key- either- one more or less sharp/one more or less flat or the related minor (if youre in major)- 5 semitones down, or the related major - 5 semitones up

ok thanks guys, thats what i thought.

the only time i could think of using different scales in a song is if you wanted to start off dark sounding and then have a cool mood changing transition and turn it into something more happy and up beat, perhaps with a nice sample to transition the change...

that would be sick now that i think about it!!

I know a bit of theory but when I'm writing music I don't pay any attention to it. Just feel out how you want it to sound.

If you need a chart to tell you how to write a song then what are you doing making music? (Theory and knowing your scales/chords etc. IS helpful, don't get me wrong, but if all you're doing is looking at a chart to write your songs....)

I like to throw the scale midi effect from ableton before the instrument, that way I won't have to worry if it's in the scale I want. I choose a scale, and bang on the keyboard and all the notes that aren't in scale will get bumped up or down to the nearest note in scale.

Phongs wrote:I like to throw the scale midi effect from ableton before the instrument, that way I won't have to worry if it's in the scale I want. I choose a scale, and bang on the keyboard and all the notes that aren't in scale will get bumped up or down to the nearest note in scale.

ive gotta look into that

I usually pick a scale, press record and then start jamming out random sequences on the midi controller until I find a sequence of say 4 to 8 notes that catch my ear.
I then try and expand on that sticking to the general rhythm of the melody. For brostep however you should be fine just picking any two notes in a scale

Key 'F' is the best ftw woo

Phongs wrote:I like to throw the scale midi effect from ableton before the instrument, that way I won't have to worry if it's in the scale I want. I choose a scale, and bang on the keyboard and all the notes that aren't in scale will get bumped up or down to the nearest note in scale.

lol, as in.. cheating?

I've triple checked this post for errors, so I'm sure everything in it is correct.

First off, if you're using fruity loops you're able to open the piano roll, click the arrow in the top left, go down to chord, and up will pop a list of tons of scales, modes, and chords, click one of them then click on your piano roll and it'll appear for you. It's a good way to get started if you're not sure about your scales and chords and what not.

Secondly, forgive me if you already know all this, just thought I'd go a bit more in detail than some of the posts have thus far and figured it might be of some help to not just OP but anybody else who happens to read it who's interested in how to write melody lines or how to use scales...etc

Scale formula:

KN = Key note of your scale
T = Tone
S = Semitone

Major scale - use for upbeat, happy songs.
KN-(T)-(T)-(S)-(T)-(T)-(T)-KN

eg.,
C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

Harmonic Minor scale - usually used for sad songs with a darker edge to them.
KN-(T)-(S)-(T)-(T)-(S)-(T+S)-KN

eg.,

C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C

Aeolian Mode (also known as the 'Natural Minor') - usually used for a purely sad or melancholic feel, or for a slightly more jazzy feel.
KN-(T)-(S)-(T)-(T)-(S)-(T)-KN

C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-C

Basic rules for writing melody lines:

1., Give your melody line an overall direction, whether it's ascending or descending, or ascending then descending it doesn't really matter, but If you have 4 bars in C Major where you just move between the F note and the G note over and over again it'll more than likely sound a little bland and directionless.

2., Think about the chords (or bass notes if you're not using any pads or chordal sounds, as these usually denote which chord you're playing) you're writing a melody line over. If you're in C Major and you're playing a B diminished it's probably not the best of idea's to hold down a C note in your melody line for any great deal of time unless you're trying to build tension or suspense.

3., Certain notes 'need' resolution. Try playing a C Major chord (CEG) then play an F note above it, you'll feel that F note 'pulling' as if something in your head is demanding it change, if you follow that F with an E it will be resolved and you won't hear any pulling anymore. Try playing a C Major chord again, this time play a B note above it, you'll feel it pulling up to the C. And if you play the C Major again and this time play a D note you'll feel that pull again and it'll sound like it needs to go to a C. You can use these 'pulls' to your advantage when giving your melody lines their direction, you can also use them to great effect by not resolving them - if you listen to some of Thomas Newman's work you'll hear a lot of great examples of that.

Some notes on the minor scales:

A lot of guys are mentioning the melodic minor, I don't recommend using it for 'sad' songs, as it's a little jarring, that's my personal take on it. There's a place for every scale in music really, just have to find it I guess. The aeolian mode is much smoother and far better suited for that melancholic feel in my opinion. You can get a sad feel out of the harmonic minor, but it'll probably sound more mournful than melancholic, and it's very useful if you want to go the other way with it and make something dark and brooding.

Other more advanced stuff:

Phrygian Mode:
KN-S-T-T-T-S-T-KN

eg.,
C-Db-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-C

This is a mode that gets used a hell of a lot in metal, brostep, and world music (weird demographic) it can be used to either create a brooding feeling or a sort of eastern/arabic sound.

Play a C bass note, and try playing the scale over it to see what I mean. Personally I think it's a little naff, but there's no reason why you shouldn't try it out, a lot of the filth producers use this scale in conjunction with a touch of chromaticism (see the end of this post for what that is)

Lydian Mode:
KN-T-T-T-S-T-T-KN

eg.,
C-D-E-F#-G-A-B-C

Has a more mysterious sound to it. Quite useful for building tension because of that F# which makes the whole scale sound very alien if you use it right. I love this mode, if you look up a Steve Vai song called Km-Pee-Du-Wee you'll see the lydian in action. It sounds very alien and interesting.

Locrian Mode:
KN-S-T-T-S-T-T-KN

eg.,
C-Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab-Bb-C

Probably one of the most useful modes for dubstep given it's dark, acute sounds, yet also, probably the least used all round in any genre of music. Pretty much every old-school videogame that has music for a 'mysterious/sinister forest' type setting will use this or the lydian or both.

Chromaticism:

Chromaticism in simple terms is using notes of a scale that don't belong there in your melody lines, so for instance, using an F# in the key of C Major, it won't always work, but like everything there's a place and a time for it, so don't feel too boxed in by the scale formula. Adding notes that aren't part of the scale (until you start doing it in excess) can give your piece anything from a feeling of unease, a feeling of the surreal, pretty much every horror soundtrack ever has used chromaticism heavily, it's commonly used when trying to denote a spiral into madness or chaos...etc but it can be used in a more uplifting way too if you do it right, just experiment with it and see where it goes really.

Don't worry about what the difference is between scales and modes is for now, just experiment, have fun, write some bangin' melody lines, and read more when you feel ready to. If the modes are scaring the shit out of you (as they do most people) feel free to completely ignore them, and the part of my post that deals with them, until you feel comfortable writing using the minor and major scales. Modes can be pretty daunting and hard to use effectively at first.

Hope some of that helped. If not apologies for rambling.

Kodachrome wrote:If you need a chart to tell you how to write a song then what are you doing making music?

I use this bad boy

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GZ3GreS0pwg/T ... Bmusic.jpg

3za wrote:

Kodachrome wrote:If you need a chart to tell you how to write a song then what are you doing making music?

I use this bad boy

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GZ3GreS0pwg/T ... Bmusic.jpg

That is actually pretty on the ball

3za wrote:

Kodachrome wrote:If you need a chart to tell you how to write a song then what are you doing making music?

I use this bad boy

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GZ3GreS0pwg/T ... Bmusic.jpg

paravrais wrote:

wizeguy wrote:if you dont know any theory
major... T-T-S-T-T-T-S
minor... T-S-T-T-S-T-T

i think, someone correct me if i'm wrong

My theory is very limited but I think what most people refer to as 'minor' is the natural minor but there are other minors too.

TSTTTTS - I think thats melodic minor

TSTTSt+sS - harmonic minor

also the phrygian scale is one of my faves for dark dubstep.

God damnit I need to learn this shit

3za wrote:

Kodachrome wrote:If you need a chart to tell you how to write a song then what are you doing making music?

I use this bad boy

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GZ3GreS0pwg/T ... Bmusic.jpg

Jelly

amphibian wrote:

paravrais wrote:

wizeguy wrote:if you dont know any theory
major... T-T-S-T-T-T-S
minor... T-S-T-T-S-T-T

i think, someone correct me if i'm wrong

My theory is very limited but I think what most people refer to as 'minor' is the natural minor but there are other minors too.

TSTTTTS - I think thats melodic minor

TSTTSt+sS - harmonic minor

also the phrygian scale is one of my faves for dark dubstep.

God damnit I need to learn this shit

No you don't. You just need to write it all down on A4 paper and blu-tac it to the wall behind your production set-up like I have XD

@Kaiori - Great post, mostly stuff I know or have been trying to learn recently but still some interesting things to think about. Got a question though, I have all my scales/modes written down like this "STTSTTS" (Locrian) but I see you've never put the final interval, just put KN instead and your example for Locrian actually jumps a whole tone at the end. Is this because the final interval can change depending on the key you play modes in or have I made a mistake when I was writing that mode down?

what the heck are all these TTSTTSTSSSTSTTS's and TTSss+sSTTTSS's ??!!!

jrisreal wrote:what the heck are all these TTSTTSTSSSTSTTS's and TTSss+sSTTTSS's ??!!!

T = tone

S = semi tone

T+S = well I'm sure you can figure it out XD

jrisreal wrote:what the heck are all these TTSTTSTSSSTSTTS's and TTSss+sSTTTSS's ??!!!

haha shit dude even i know absolutely no musical theory and know that