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Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:10 pm
by wub
fassyman wrote:wub wrote:fassyman wrote:wub wrote:Honestly, neither.
I'd prefer to just produce something that was interesting.
dynamic variation is something i always try to utalise to keep my tracks sounding interesting.
Is that mixing?
nope
Can I ask what you mean by that then?
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:20 pm
by gen_
I actually go for loudness now. Dynamics are hard for me not to keep, but it's bloody annoying when you're playing Jokers/Flux/61bit's track and then yours flicks over next in the playlist and you're forced to go to the hi-fi and turn it up. makes it look like you're beggin attention when really I'd rather my tracks sound dynamically and level-wise consistent with the other stuff out there.
when I get to the level when I can make stupidly loud analogue masters that still retain clarity then I'll stop worrying about loudness. Till then, I'm sitting there with my multiband compressor and trying to inch out every last dB out of my drop.
To be very honest, I would have said completely the opposite 6 months ago, but times change.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:56 pm
by victor w
Electric_Head wrote:I wouldn`t go that far.
It`s great in clubs but for me it`s a must that it sounds good through my headphones.
I do a lot of eyes down listening.
So it`s a bit of both for me
Yeah I agree, a lot of dubstep and just electronic music in general, edm or not, can sound best if you're a headphone listener, just listening to the music isolated in silence able to take in all the details. I mean...a lot of dancefloor dubstep is basically the same song twice..intro, drop, break, possibly new drop, etc and those belong in dj sets and aren't usually as intricate as more constructive edm which...if youre dancing and crowded the last thing you care about is panning verbed out perc or little details like that. sorry, off topic.
but i prefer dynamics because it gives you a break, and makes you pay attention. if the track is basically the same volume throughout, you don't notice little details as easy. the artists want you to listen, not simply hear it
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:12 pm
by deadly_habit
dynamics for more chilled or deep stuff
loudness for the hype dancefloor wobbles (not just slammed through a limiter)
a good mixdown fitting the tune is the first priority regardless
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:30 pm
by Johnst
deadly habit wrote:dynamics for more chilled or deep stuff
loudness for the hype dancefloor wobbles (not just slammed through a limiter)
a good mixdown fitting the tune is the first priority regardless
Yup. I would agree with this completely. As people pointed out already, dynamics and small details are better appreciated in headphones/just lying on your bed listening to music, whereas when i'm at a show, although i certainly don't care for the constant DR. FUNTRILLEXBOY, I do like there to be drops that knock me backwards.
It's just... fun. Especially drunk. Drunk as hell.
But I guess my vote then goes for dynamics, cause when I'm sitting around or going about daily business, I want to listen to something that has real musical interest.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:17 pm
by fragments
I agree that a balance is probably good. I'm leaning toward headphone/hi fi music more and more in my productions these days so I voted for dynamics...but yea...I want some loudness to my tracks.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:21 pm
by Sparxy
Sometimes I will do 2 mixes, one loud one for the dancefloor (the one I will usually send to people) and one for the car / headphones / whatever
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:42 pm
by AJGR
dynamics with the volume turned up!
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:50 pm
by AllNightDayDream
Output volume is as trivial as adjusting the output volume
loud is a relative term. In order for something to seem really loud you have to put it in the context of softer and smoother sounds, i.e. dynamics.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:22 pm
by jrisreal
totally agreed ledge, if it not loud enough, the listener can turn the freaking volume knob.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:33 pm
by tavravlavish
wub wrote:Honestly, neither.
I'd prefer to just produce something that was interesting.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:59 pm
by Depone
You know what, I actually do like some of the characteristics of limiting, it does something for me.
But, i always try keep the 'sound' of dynamic music, but alas I always push into the limiter. Theres a really good Loudness vs Dynamics article in this months Sound on sound. Its a really good read and blows some pretty good myths on limiting killing dynamics.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:14 pm
by psychedelicatessen
Dynamics.
The more I fuck around with compressors, the less I like them. A few tracks will be compressed, if any, now, and it's mostly because of working with shite samples in the first place, but I bounce the compressed sample then go about my dynamics so that I don't ruin my velocity automations and stuff like that. In the end of the day, I don't care that my tunes aren't as loud as commercial tunes, because at the end of the day, I'm happy with my tunes and whenever I get the chance I blast them and loose myself in the ridiculous amount of feeling that I look for in other tunes. I'm content, and people who hear my music blasted like it, too. But it's all in the dynamics, and when I crank it up, uncompressed versions of my tunes breathe, and have a feeling of space compared to the compressed, which I usually just want to turn down.
I don't care about the loudness war, tbh. I used to, but I really couldn't give a single fuck about it now. Why bother? I'm improving vastly in my mixes, getting better with eq'ing and using my ears to do things that I relied on numbers and visuals to tell me, creating more space in my mix to beef up key elements with reverb and creative effects (no more trying to fix everything) and finally thinking outside the box.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:16 pm
by Ongelegen
This might be of interest for you guys.
http://www.gameaudiopodcast.com/?p=275
gameaudiopodcast wrote:An insightful discussion of reference level standards across the worlds of music, film, and broadcast and how they relate to the emerging state of game audio.
EDIT: didn't check it out myself yet though
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:41 pm
by deadly_habit
Depone wrote:You know what, I actually do like some of the characteristics of limiting, it does something for me.
But, i always try keep the 'sound' of dynamic music, but alas I always push into the limiter. Theres a really good Loudness vs Dynamics article in this months Sound on sound. Its a really good read and blows some pretty good myths on limiting killing dynamics.
yea but we're also talking about a group of people (making a generalization i know)who squash the shit out of things with limiters and lack understanding for the most part of compression and other dynamic tools and techniques (parallel compression, etc) and using them subtlety
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:45 pm
by hifi
aha i bet more than half the people voted dynamics but know they put a limiter on all their tracks to push it up a few dB... i will admit it i do go for loudness JUDGE ME.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:41 am
by fragments
Hypefiend wrote:aha i bet more than half the people voted dynamics but know they put a limiter on all their tracks to push it up a few dB... i will admit it i do go for loudness JUDGE ME.
Admitting to some ignorance here, but, is one automatically killing all dynamics when limiting a track? Couldn't one gently limit for a bit of additional punch w/o loosing all track dynamics?
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:55 am
by jrisreal
fragments wrote:Hypefiend wrote:aha i bet more than half the people voted dynamics but know they put a limiter on all their tracks to push it up a few dB... i will admit it i do go for loudness JUDGE ME.
Admitting to some ignorance here, but, is one automatically killing all dynamics when limiting a track? Couldn't one gently limit for a bit of additional punch w/o loosing all track dynamics?
I do use a limiter, but then automate the output to put in some dynamics.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:29 am
by wormcode
Dynamics every time.
Dynamics are important for moods, and playing with emotions. Compressing and limiting can be used to aid dynamics too, so using them doesn't automatically kill dynamics, you still have to abuse them to squash the sound. Then if it's mastered, it gets the limit/compress treatment again, then in most clubs it will be limited yet again.
I have looked at many very loud well mixed/mastered tracks that are still only peaking around -6db and you can still see peaks and valleys. In some cases they are even "louder" than ones at 0db.
Re: Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:33 am
by deadly_habit
fragments wrote:Hypefiend wrote:aha i bet more than half the people voted dynamics but know they put a limiter on all their tracks to push it up a few dB... i will admit it i do go for loudness JUDGE ME.
Admitting to some ignorance here, but, is one automatically killing all dynamics when limiting a track? Couldn't one gently limit for a bit of additional punch w/o loosing all track dynamics?
depends on how much you're limiting, and how loud your initial mixdown is
load up a spectrum analyzer (hopefully it has an rms meter on it as well) and look at it without the limiter on, and then after the limiter as an exercise in what is being affected