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butter man wrote:

AllNightDayDream wrote:
B. Animals have consciousness. What a dumb thing to say.

I think were the only animal thats conscious of its own mortality, though I dont know how you'd prove that.

make a loud bang close to a dog - it will run away most likely, this is because it is scared of the bang i.e it is scared of getting hurt by whatever made the bang i.e it doesnt want to die

of course we aren't the only animals that are conscious of our mortality!

Siderealdb wrote:

butter man wrote:

AllNightDayDream wrote:
B. Animals have consciousness. What a dumb thing to say.

I think were the only animal thats conscious of its own mortality, though I dont know how you'd prove that.

So gazelles run from cheetahs just for the fuck of it?

fear is an instinct, wether they visualise the outcome of there demise I do not know, but apparently we are the only animals that know we are going to die one day, a curse I tells ya.

The "animals being conscious" thing I think is more about whether or not humans are the only animal to understand their role on this planet, and that we are humans, a lion is a lion, etc AKA being self-aware. There's been some interesting studies and debates that go as far as to say dolphins understand who they are. Check out some of John C. Lilly's work.

butter man wrote:

Siderealdb wrote:

butter man wrote:

AllNightDayDream wrote:
B. Animals have consciousness. What a dumb thing to say.

I think were the only animal thats conscious of its own mortality, though I dont know how you'd prove that.

So gazelles run from cheetahs just for the fuck of it?

fear is an instinct, wether they visualise the outcome of there demise I do not know, but apparently we are the only animals that know we are going to die one day, a curse I tells ya.

Well you've never had a 17 year old dog give you the look that says "take me to the vet and put me out of my misery."
Additionally, fear and instinct are appropriate subjects when thinking about our own mortality, and just because an animal doesn't dwell on it when it doesn't matter, like us humans, doesn't mean they aren't conscience of it.

A Muslim friend of mine told me that the fact we can generate matter/anti-matter in a vacuum proves Allah's existence.

Siderealdb wrote:

butter man wrote:

Siderealdb wrote:

butter man wrote:

AllNightDayDream wrote:
B. Animals have consciousness. What a dumb thing to say.

I think were the only animal thats conscious of its own mortality, though I dont know how you'd prove that.

So gazelles run from cheetahs just for the fuck of it?

fear is an instinct, wether they visualise the outcome of there demise I do not know, but apparently we are the only animals that know we are going to die one day, a curse I tells ya.

Well you've never had a 17 year old dog give you the look that says "take me to the vet and put me out of my misery."
Additionally, fear and instinct are appropriate subjects when thinking about our own mortality, and just because an animal doesn't dwell on it when it doesn't matter, like us humans, doesn't mean they aren't conscience of it.

we'll have to agree to disagree, your right about the dog though, sounds harsh. but with the 'do animals know they are gonna die' question its the same as 'does god exist' even though theres an argument for both sides we are not advanced enough to fully understand the answer to both questions. I once spoke to my concieved notion of what god is on a lot of acid, there was no man with a beard though and thats as far as Im willing to go on the matter in fear of babbling nonsensical jibberish.

This thread hurts my head.

jameshk wrote:This thread hurts my head.

cityzen wrote:A Muslim friend of mine told me that the fact we can generate matter/anti-matter in a vacuum proves Allah's existence.

It is Allah's will.

There is a difference between knowledge and belief.

right. proving god's existence defeats the point.
the point of believing in god is that you believe in god.
people who want to prove god's existence really confuse me.
faith is one of the few nice bits about religious thought.

aren't you the one who PM'd me one time telling me that you are a Christian? If so, what kind of thread is this?! I'm sorry, but I just lost a lot of respect for you...

Nature - If nature were perfect, we wouldn't have to worry about pain or suffering. If this god fellow created the whole thing, why create a world where animals kill each other for food. Why not let them all just get energy from the sun? Or, let's take it even farther. If he could rewrite physics then why even have a system in which life needs energy?

Conscious thought - Who says our level of consciousness is any different than other animals? We simply react to sensory information and past experience like we do.

A great quote from one of my anatomy professors: As you can see, this part makes no sense, and is actually probably one of the biggest problems with the way the human body is put together. Obviously we are outliving what we evolved to live, either that or the guy who created us is an utter moron.

jrisreal wrote:aren't you the one who PM'd me one time telling me that you are a Christian? If so, what kind of thread is this?! I'm sorry, but I just lost a lot of respect for you...

sorry mate. conforming to a religion such as christianity can be very limiting. i like science

Hypefiend wrote:

jrisreal wrote:aren't you the one who PM'd me one time telling me that you are a Christian? If so, what kind of thread is this?! I'm sorry, but I just lost a lot of respect for you...

sorry mate. conforming to a religion such as christianity can be very limiting. i like science

I like science too, but that doesn't mean I can't have faith in God.

Hypefiend wrote:

jrisreal wrote:aren't you the one who PM'd me one time telling me that you are a Christian? If so, what kind of thread is this?! I'm sorry, but I just lost a lot of respect for you...

sorry mate. conforming to a religion such as christianity can be very limiting. i like science

We find things beautiful for evolutionarily important reasons - we EVOLVED to find certain things beautiful in order that we'd naturally gravitate to pleasant habitats and fertile/healthy mates.

The concept of beauty almost certainly has nothing to do with God and everything to do with mating and survival.

If there was an answer that could satisfy anyone who thinks that 'God is real because nature is so complex', we wouldn't have theists anymore.

wolf89 wrote:I'd be like this


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
(the thumbs up is not in agreement though)

Rofl'd hard at this.

youthful_implants wrote:

cityzen wrote:A Muslim friend of mine told me that the fact we can generate matter/anti-matter in a vacuum proves Allah's existence.

It is Allah's will.

Lol, don't get me started on the whole Allah's/God's will thing. That is one cluster-fuck of an argument.

Raggles wrote:There is a difference between knowledge and belief.

Yep! (Please refer to my sig )