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collective wrote: Massive waste of money IMO. But then again, I can write my own patches in Max so I could careless about ill.gates mega perfomance all in one kit. If you can't route midi and set yourself up with your own ableton template and you have to buy one, you are in the wrong game.

This.

Make your own template. Learn a thing or two. Then step it up and get Max for Live and build your dream live setup.

Heartless wrote:

collective wrote: Massive waste of money IMO. But then again, I can write my own patches in Max so I could careless about ill.gates mega perfomance all in one kit. If you can't route midi and set yourself up with your own ableton template and you have to buy one, you are in the wrong game.

This.

Make your own template. Learn a thing or two. Then step it up and get Max for Live and build your dream live setup.

you got the idea.

blinx wrote: 50 bucks def is massive amounts of money huh? and we better tell bassnectar, datsik, deadmau5, vadim, daft punk and everyone who uses abelton live with out writing or building there own programs that they all suck and are in the wrong game. No one is MAKING anyone have to buy one but with your mentatliity you better be building your own midi controllers and cables otherwise dude your in the wrong game IMO. lulz

Fifty dollars is not a massive amount of money, which makes the fact that such a little amount of money is such a waste catastrophically retarded. I do make my own patches, controllers and cables (I don't really understand why cables are in there). You are clearly young, thats alright. You are clearly unexperienced, thats even alright. But you are claiming shit I didn't say, I didn't say anyone is "MAKING" anyone buy anything. I said that its for people who want a shortcut, and all those artists you listed have vested enough in finding what works for them, but you havent and ill.gates is taking advantage of the "wannabe DJ Boom" and making bank off dumb fucking kids who are too lazy to create something yourself (props to ill.gates for seeing the opportunity).

I think you are in the wrong game IMO if you think its all about shortcuts. Also you talk like you have a breadth of knowledge, you dont.

You can tell a lot about a person by the people they reference as being "ahead of the game" in terms of live show...(see: Richard Devine, Venetian Snares, Autechre and Robert Henke for true live inspiration)

LULZ @ YOU sir.

blinx wrote:LULZ @ YOU sir.

Sir is right. Go hone your skills and come back with some knowledge to share.

collective wrote:

blinx wrote:LULZ @ YOU sir.

Sir is right. Go hone your skills and come back with some knowledge to share.

Just for more Lulz how old and unexperienced do you really think i am? And thanks for trolling my other posts lol we laughed good and hard at you and your poor attitude today at work.

And apoligies to the OP i didnt know my OPINION of the ill.gates template and how to dj with ableton live would summon the beast that is collective to come and flame us all with his arrogance.

i've used ableton for years djing, no personal preference as to what medium a dj uses as long as the tunes are good.

massive respect to people who really take their medium to the next level though, seen some incredible laptop performances and vinyl sets, both are equally impressive

Darkow wrote:Hi guys

I have noticed a lot of DJ's are moving towards the ableton live setup instead of using CDJS/turntables etc.

What do you prefer and why??

When you wrote this that was probably the case.
But I keep encountering the same scenario:
I make a clean, professional mix in cubase or logic, and there it is,
I press PLAY and it sounds awesome, has depth, and I love it.

Now I have huge hesitations about putting the audio into Live.
Ive experimented with it, and I always find that Live seems to squash all the headroom out of a mix, and every element in the track is "up front"<- the amatuer says: "yeahh haha, everything up front, ha". But no.
Headroom gives the song its space. Some instruments are very low on purpose, usually a lot of them.

Live applies its WARP to everything. I guess the audience is the final judge, but to my ears, when basses are warped like this, they turn to shit, with white noise added to the low end to conceal what warping does.

anonnona wrote:

Darkow wrote:Hi guys

I have noticed a lot of DJ's are moving towards the ableton live setup instead of using CDJS/turntables etc.

What do you prefer and why??

When you wrote this that was probably the case.
But I keep encountering the same scenario:
I make a clean, professional mix in cubase or logic, and there it is,
I press PLAY and it sounds awesome, has depth, and I love it.

Now I have huge hesitations about putting the audio into Live.
Ive experimented with it, and I always find that Live seems to squash all the headroom out of a mix, and every element in the track is "up front"<- the amatuer says: "yeahh haha, everything up front, ha". But no.
Headroom gives the song its space. Some instruments are very low on purpose, usually a lot of them.

Live applies its WARP to everything. I guess the audience is the final judge, but to my ears, when basses are warped like this, they turn to shit, with white noise added to the low end to conceal what warping does.

repitch > complex

abletons gr8 for djing cos you can import a pre mixed mix (doesn't even have to be one of yours) then press play and just mince around the laptop and pretend your doing shit.

Mason wrote:abletons gr8 for djing cos you can import a pre mixed mix (doesn't even have to be one of yours) then press play and just mince around the laptop and pretend your doing shit.

Pretty much how i see most "live" sets being, they aren't really mixing on the fly and most likely have it all planned out.

Marcus wrote:

Mason wrote:abletons gr8 for djing cos you can import a pre mixed mix (doesn't even have to be one of yours) then press play and just mince around the laptop and pretend your doing shit.

Pretty much how i see most "live" sets being, they aren't really mixing on the fly and most likely have it all planned out.

This.. if its an Ableton 'Live' set and not your own material, you better back it up with some crazy acrobatics or tits.

"mixing" vs actually performing your music is blatantly different, no comparison, musicians > djs, period

the dub lemon wrote:Vinyl or CDJs if you just want to turn up and play. Ableton if you want to invest time in building something really good and preparation. If you're going to just use ableton to trigger 1 song after another then it's pretty uninteresting but with some time and work you and truely take it so much further, the only problem is very few people actually do that.

A good dj set must also have preparation behind it, setting strategic hot cues, knowing how many bars long is each segment of the song, its not instant dj skills

Darkow wrote:Hi guys

I have noticed a lot of DJ's are moving towards the ableton live setup instead of using CDJS/turntables etc.

What do you prefer and why??

really? like who?

CDJs all day

big up strategic hotcues crew

Hypefiend wrote:"mixing" vs actually performing your music is blatantly different, no comparison, musicians > djs, period

Mind that most 'live' sets are not even about mixing let alone performing anything.

I play instruments, and use daws like Maschine and Live but I decide to stick to turntables anyway.

I would still rather see a DJ mashing it up on CDJs or Technics than someone staring at a laptop screen. As a punter it's just a shit experience unless they are genuinely doing something groundbreaking with it. And 99% of people aren't. Just my personal opinion and I am open to having my mind changed but no one's managed to swing it yet.

For me, DJing has always been quite a social thing. Playing tunes with your mates, sometimes perhaps to an audience at an event or party to really add to the vibes. Picking the right tunes at the right times. Having a few beers and inviting your buddies round for a mix. Going back to back with people and having "battles". You can't do that with Ableton, or even Traktor/Serato really unless they are coming with some tunes on file. Even then if they're not familiar with these setups they can't really do it. For me you lose a massive part of what DJing is about when you go as far into the digital setup as using Ableton for DJing.

That said, I would really like to learn how to slap a studio mix together in Ableton if it's going to save me time. I've longed out on doing mixes for people before, being able to put a decent set together in Abe would be handy. But i'd never use it live

It's interesting that this ever repetitive discussion has shifted from vinyl vs Ableton to CDJs vs Ableton.

As a punter on the dancefloor I don't really care what tech is being used to funnel the music out of the stacks so long as the music sounds awesome. Some DJs/performers are part n parcel with their tech, scratch DJs, Monolake etc. but generally you're there to listen not to watch.

The only folks who care about the tech side of things, are other DJs. Who feel the need to defend their chosen equipment as the gospel. It doesn't matter and it's all personal preference.

You can suck balls on CDJs as much as you can on Ableton. I can do way more complex builds and programming with Ableton than I can on vinyl. Each has it's merits. Vinyl has the simplicity of a single plate into another, or a 3rd (on special occasions) that you can build upon. It's also a pretty tactile experience which CDJs have to a degree (the non spinning industry standard Pioneer decks still feel odd) but in that Ableton is lacking; but that's a personal preference thing as I started on touching vinyl rather than just faders and knobs on the controller I use on Ableton.

Ultimately use what you feel comfortable using, if you're good you're good with whatever tech you're using. Decks, software etc... all need practice and time investment. Auto sync can only get so far you still need a creative edge to be anything other than generic.

Fair enough. I just dunno if it constitutes DJing. It's something else. But you're right, at the end of the day its all just a performance and what the listeners think is what really counts.

Well DJing at it's most basic is the selection/curation of sounds and music - the techniques applied to how that is delivered: beat matching, juggling, EQing, fading, drop matching, scratching etc... all build on that.

You can be the most technically advanced DJ in the world but if your music is dull... your music is dull. Look at the old dub selectors. They had one record deck and still blew the roof off as the tracks they picked were the business. Richie Hawtin was once a massive influence to me. His choice in sound matched by his technical ability and skills on the decks and later machines. These days whilst technically he's doing some cutting edge technology things; the music, the core of his performance and my listening experience, suck. Suck so badly that I ignore him now - I don't hate him I just am completely indifferent to his professional being.

And for someone who produced a mixtape as amazing as Dex, Efx and 909 that's a hard sweet to swallow. His music these days is beyond dull and so very very Berlin hipster it hurts.