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^That's an interesting point.

symmetricalsounds wrote:

Refuzed wrote:

symmetricalsounds wrote:

jrisreal wrote:Music Theory is more important. Listen to a jazz band live in concert. They are not mixed down or processed

course it's processed, what you think the live sound engineer is doing. it might only be a touch of eq and/or compression but still processed.

to OP, when someone says there is no post production in jazz, they're tlaknig half truths. whats meant is there is no pitch correction, distortion etc all these effects, there is still going to be a touch of compression and limiting though.

half-truth? i.e wrong

it may only be processed lightly but it's still processed. think jrisreal is underestimating the power of a live sound engineer, they seriously do make or break a live performance.

Nope. I have yet to see a jazz concert with a live engineer. They aren't necessary for that style of music. Think classical, too. I'm talking music with only physical instruments, no amplification, even. And they still sound good because they know what fits with what.

I used to be in a jazz band and freestyle saxaphone solos are fun as heck but you can't do that without knowing theory or atleast knowing some theory subconsciously.

general OTTOMH approximation:

dubstep = 80% production & synthcraft / 20% theory

Trance = 50% production & synthcraft / 50% theory

Jazz = 2% production & synthcraft / 98% theory

jrisreal wrote:

symmetricalsounds wrote:

Refuzed wrote:

symmetricalsounds wrote:

jrisreal wrote:Music Theory is more important. Listen to a jazz band live in concert. They are not mixed down or processed

course it's processed, what you think the live sound engineer is doing. it might only be a touch of eq and/or compression but still processed.

to OP, when someone says there is no post production in jazz, they're tlaknig half truths. whats meant is there is no pitch correction, distortion etc all these effects, there is still going to be a touch of compression and limiting though.

half-truth? i.e wrong

it may only be processed lightly but it's still processed. think jrisreal is underestimating the power of a live sound engineer, they seriously do make or break a live performance.

Nope. I have yet to see a jazz concert with a live engineer. They aren't necessary for that style of music. Think classical, too. I'm talking music with only physical instruments, no amplification, even. And they still sound good because they know what fits with what.

I used to be in a jazz band and freestyle saxaphone solos are fun as heck but you can't do that without knowing theory or atleast knowing some theory subconsciously.

if it's all acoustic then fair enough, but you're kidding yourself if you think that any performance with amplified music doesn't have a sound engineer working it. public events where you just have for example government officials talking have sound engineers working them, so if it's needed just for a one or two mics and someone talking at a stand in the front then it's needed for classical performances with 100s of performers.

123kidd wrote:Just had a thought about this. One can be creative musically, but do you guys feel that knowing the technical side of production allows you to be just as creative? An example off the top of my head, pumping effect from sidechaining. Also which would you say is important to learn more of? I know that a balance of both is key but I want to hear peoples thoughts on this.
Also, If this is in the wrong section please feel free to move it.

of course its as important, otherwise this forum would be called musictheoryforum.com

production technique is almost the only thing we discuss here (well there are exceptions)

the line between creating and tweaking is now blurrier then ever and its cool.

One thing to add, In production there are correction techniques you can use to compensate for the lack of music knowledge. An example is in ableton you can put everything to any scale you choose and it will correct any notes out of scale. Then you can randomize it in sections and there you go.

Not saying music theory is not important, there are just ways to make things sound ok, even when your clueless.

outdropt wrote:One thing to add, In production there are correction techniques you can use to compensate for the lack of music knowledge. An example is in ableton you can put everything to any scale you choose and it will correct any notes out of scale. Then you can randomize it in sections and there you go.

Not saying music theory is not important, there are just ways to make things sound ok, even when your clueless.

to be frank, i hate when music lacks intent. A conscious artistic urge, or gtfo.

in other words, the only "wrong" notes are the ones you didn't mean to play. To be fair, though, a lot of music (especially dubstep/edm) is composed of textural, tonal and rhythmic sounds whose pitch is secondary. So, as long as you CHOOSE your textures/sounds, then its made with intent. Blind exploration yields good results sometimes but that's patch building, not composition. Composition starts when you sequence the sounds and conceive a musical passage.

Also, we've all missed the point of the OP, which is "can mix engineering be as creative as writing music" and i think absolutely it can be. Look at some of the patches built for NI guitar rig MFX. they're brilliantly creative in the signal routing and modulating of effects modules.
bussing signals, automation, panning, EQ, compression, pumping, gating, layering
Even production (not mix engineering, i mean liek producing an artist, i.e. coaching them in the studio to get the takes you want) and knowing what you as the producer are going to do with the takes

Look at how much you can change audio after it's tracked. Engineering is insanely creative. at least when you're good at it.