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bigdaveo11 wrote:+1 for shaack transient designer. Came across that plug in from reso using it in his materclass video. Anyway can anyone possibly explain why the transient designer typically comes before a compressor? I know this is typically the order but just wondering why that is.

Thank you.

i stole this from another site but it explains it better than i could.

''A transient can be defined as the first dynamic impulse of a waveform. These transient elements appear before the sound has completed a full cycle and they are decisive for sound recognition. It is not that important whether a snare is played loudly or softly, we can nevertheless recognize its sound. Changes in the transient structure have a major impact on the sound character — which makes the Transient Designer an essential dynamic tool for sound shaping. If you wanted to process these parts of the signal with a compressor, the attack time would have to be so fast that it would be inappropriate for the rest of the signal, resulting in unwanted side effects, like pumping. The Transient Designer acts precisely where a traditional compressor cannot, making it the best complement for dynamic processing.''

so a compressor before transient designer would only make more work for the transient designer and mess up the sound as you would be going in too hot into the transient from the compressor.

bit like throwing more dirt on to your car just before you go jet wash.

great explanation ^. thank you.

Some handy tips in this thread

Do you even need the compressor?

A transient shaper has two envelopes, one with a fast attack/release, and a second with a slow attack. You blend together the two signals. So basically you aren't controlling "the transient" per se, which is a different (and consistant?) sound than the rest of the signal, like the pick sound of a guitar, but are actually just controlling the volume of the first short period of time of the signal.

Now I think about it, it would be better to have a "speed" control which changes the length of the start period.

the idea of transient shapers are cool but iv never liked any plugins that do this because they increase the db level too much for my liking which i find annoying to sort after. i just distort the very start of my drums via sidechaining or automation (i set the input of the distortion high and output pretty low). i mentioned it in another thread but it works wonders for me and leaves extra headroom.

I had been using Loser's Transient Shaper in Reaper, which has an output control.

It seems to be available as a VST?
http://loser.asseca.com/

bookmarked

sunny_b_uk wrote:the idea of transient shapers are cool but iv never liked any plugins that do this because they increase the db level too much for my liking which i find annoying to sort after. i just distort the very start of my drums via sidechaining or automation (i set the input of the distortion high and output pretty low). i mentioned it in another thread but it works wonders for me and leaves extra headroom.

Hmm, the distortion thing is interesting. How do you use the sidechain? I can see the automation working but it seems a bit tedious, you put the automation clip at the start of every hit or am I missing something obvious? Pretty interesting technique either way, I'd love to hear more on that.

Use a gate with a quick release?

Maxxan wrote:

sunny_b_uk wrote:the idea of transient shapers are cool but iv never liked any plugins that do this because they increase the db level too much for my liking which i find annoying to sort after. i just distort the very start of my drums via sidechaining or automation (i set the input of the distortion high and output pretty low). i mentioned it in another thread but it works wonders for me and leaves extra headroom.

Hmm, the distortion thing is interesting. How do you use the sidechain? I can see the automation working but it seems a bit tedious, you put the automation clip at the start of every hit or am I missing something obvious? Pretty interesting technique either way, I'd love to hear more on that.

I agree this sounds pretty interesting. I can see it working pretty well because the distortion will only be on like the first 10 ms of the sample (maybe less maybe more.) Therefore, it won't change the sound of the sample as a whole and will just make it more punchy.

jack sparrow1 wrote:hey,

i get sent a lot of music and see a lot of people complaining about quietness of mixes etc.

i apologise if this is really basic for people but it might serve some use for novices.

firstly grab this plugin or similar.

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=18 its free!

the enveloper in logic can achieve the same results roughly.

ok so envelopers and transients designers can really increase the loudness of your drums or overall mix by letting you adjust the attack of a sound to decrease the peaks. You can also boost sounds that are lacking punch.

most common problems when mixing drums are that spiking occurs and its usually snares (not always).

so in really simple terms the transient shaper or enveloper will let you add attack to a snare or any sound without you losing too much power and you can also do the same to add power to a sound that lacks dynamics.

dont draw for compression straight away as this will only amplify the peak!

so a plugin chain could look something like

EQ>Enveloper>Overdrive (optional)>Compression>Multimeter

im really shit at writing so i hope you can at least grab the essence and do some research.

J

Wouldn't your compression and overdrive mess up the EQ work you've done? I always have the EQ last then I have the snare or kick bussed to a separate insert with a transient shaper and a limiter cutting those spikes. I mean, there is no wrong way of doing it though so it might not matter.

I usually EQ before overdrive to make sure I don't boost any frequencies I don't like, otherwise you're boosting them only to take them out after, no point in that. Then sometimes I put another EQ after to clean up highs or whatever it might add. If needed.

Although, sometimes mind you, EQ:ing too much before distortion makes it too clean. Leaving a lot of low/sub before distortion and then cutting it after instead of cutting before distortion makes a huuuge difference for movement in growls etc. So that's good to keep in mind.

OfficialDAPT wrote:

Maxxan wrote:

sunny_b_uk wrote:the idea of transient shapers are cool but iv never liked any plugins that do this because they increase the db level too much for my liking which i find annoying to sort after. i just distort the very start of my drums via sidechaining or automation (i set the input of the distortion high and output pretty low). i mentioned it in another thread but it works wonders for me and leaves extra headroom.

Hmm, the distortion thing is interesting. How do you use the sidechain? I can see the automation working but it seems a bit tedious, you put the automation clip at the start of every hit or am I missing something obvious? Pretty interesting technique either way, I'd love to hear more on that.

I agree this sounds pretty interesting. I can see it working pretty well because the distortion will only be on like the first 10 ms of the sample (maybe less maybe more.) Therefore, it won't change the sound of the sample as a whole and will just make it more punchy.

i layer a super short snare with the drum hit i want to affect (on a separate channel). the snare peaks & only lasts a split second. next i put fruity peak controller on that snare's channel (set peak controller on mute NOT the sound) then i link controller to the dry/wet distortion of my drum i want to beef up (distortion kinda high and output low so it squashes the signal a bit). tweak the decay in peak controller to control how fast or slow the effect fades off.
feel free to try it out on a good snare/kick, although its a lot more effective as a mixdown thing rather than using on a one shot sample of course

Really good stuff here.

See? Who says the Production forum is all retards?

jack sparrow1 wrote:dont draw for compression straight away as this will only amplify the peak!

Hey jack sparrow, cool post and I totally agree that transient designers seem to be the future in terms of adding punch to stuff.

I quoted this because it confused me and as you're a producer who seems to know their shit in the scheme of things, could I ask what you mean by that?

unless I'm completely mistaken, I've for a long time understood that compression decreases peak amplitude, where-in you then have the option to raise the gain to the original volume, bringing up subtler areas of the timbre in the sound. So in essence, you're flattening the peaks; or compressing the dynamic range.

Am i right or am i completely miss reading you there?



edit: Unless you're referring specifically to a slow attack setting allowing the transients through, then raising the gain, essentially performing the the same function as a transient designer. Which in that case, yeh, you'll be amplifying the peak. But what's the difference between using a transient designer to shape the attack envelope, or using a compressor to, essentially, shape the attack envelope?

another +1 for flux bittersweet, it may look like a dinky one-knob demo VST, but it's fantastic, even when pushed to an extreme

Italus wrote:

jack sparrow1 wrote:hey,

i get sent a lot of music and see a lot of people complaining about quietness of mixes etc.

i apologise if this is really basic for people but it might serve some use for novices.

firstly grab this plugin or similar.

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=18 its free!

the enveloper in logic can achieve the same results roughly.

ok so envelopers and transients designers can really increase the loudness of your drums or overall mix by letting you adjust the attack of a sound to decrease the peaks. You can also boost sounds that are lacking punch.

most common problems when mixing drums are that spiking occurs and its usually snares (not always).

so in really simple terms the transient shaper or enveloper will let you add attack to a snare or any sound without you losing too much power and you can also do the same to add power to a sound that lacks dynamics.

dont draw for compression straight away as this will only amplify the peak!

so a plugin chain could look something like

EQ>Enveloper>Overdrive (optional)>Compression>Multimeter

im really shit at writing so i hope you can at least grab the essence and do some research.

J

Wouldn't your compression and overdrive mess up the EQ work you've done? I always have the EQ last then I have the snare or kick bussed to a separate insert with a transient shaper and a limiter cutting those spikes. I mean, there is no wrong way of doing it though so it might not matter.

Here's the mistake you're making: You're assuming because the EQ is inserted before the distortion or compressor, it was set first.

You can apply a distortion or compressor, then insert an EQ earlier in the chain, and set it (while listening through distortion/compressor).

You will still need an EQ at the end to get the most out of the sound, though.

But yes, distortion and compression do influence the frequency response of a signal.

Nice thread, found some interesting info in here.

BIg up Jacksparrow!

are there any free plugins that tighten up the release like the stillwell ?