Dubstepforum.com

south3rn wrote:

Soiree wrote:So what makes a tune "Hardcore" then, is that a term for the RAVE INFLUENCE?

i think what really separates hardcore breakbeat and jungle is tempo. hardcore was closer to 140. plus hardcore was generally more upbeat and jungle had a darkness to it. a lot of the 92 hardcore stuff could be sped up to 160 and pass for jungle easily.

i think a critical point in regards to house/jungle/breaks/dubstep is that speed cannot be separated from the impact of dancing. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to or heard from that associate the success of dubstep and 140bpm with the fact that people of all ages can dance to it on a given friday night for 5-8 hours on their feet without problems. Once you get into the higher bpms, that might not be the case for all ages. I'd say that is a reason why jungle/dnb still attracts a mostly younger crowd, whereas dubstep has bridged things over to a much wider age range. similarly, there's a reason why hip hop went global at its bpm. same with 4x4 house.

Soiree wrote:

This tune is so massive.

Hardcore


Jungle


D&B

this question has been on my mind for a while, is it possible to have 100 bpm dubstep? I have heard people talk about that, but I have never taken the time to find any songs, as tbh it sounds kind of ridiculous to me.

Clean wrote:this question has been on my mind for a while, is it possible to have 100 bpm dubstep? I have heard people talk about that, but I have never taken the time to find any songs, as tbh it sounds kind of ridiculous to me.

95bpm but you get what i mean


kromestar has done a few joints at 100bpm as well

If it sounds like dubstep, it's dubstep. If someone can pull it off at 100 bpm, by all means call it dubstep. It's kinda irrelevant I think. If it captures the feel, then it's that.

As for jungle vs dnb. I've always been the type of guy who considers dnb to be the 'main genre' and that jungle is subgenre of 'dnb'. Doesn't really matter what came first (and people started calling it dnb around the time they were first calling it jungle). But techstep, crossbreed, jungle, drumfunk, it's all part of the greater drum & bass spectrum. And yeah, you could say that jungle is a dirtier style and more about straight forward break mashing.

Genevieve wrote:people started calling it dnb around the time they were first calling it jungle.

lolno

hardcore came first, then jungle, then dnb.

jungle can be from 140-180bpm, i've got jungle tunes going from these 2 extremes and all the way inbetween.

dnb is generally 170-175. a pretty narrow range for mixing and stuff. tho you do still get some tunes at 160 and whatnot.

jungle came from hardcore when one lot of djs/producers started concentrating more on mashing up breaks in their tracks. you still get this in some hardcore as thats where it started, but not anywhere near the extent you do in jungle.

dnb started when the sound was moving away from the chopped up breaks and ragga influences (which as has been mentioned wasn't necessarily present in all jungle).

also jungle > dnb

remarc is the jungle don imo. i could post remarc tunes all day, but you can check them out on youtube if you care. instead i'll fire up these 2 classics.

Laszlo wrote:

Genevieve wrote:people started calling it dnb around the time they were first calling it jungle.

lolno

lol yes.

Im an old man. i spent the years of 1993-96 going to to jungle parties nearly every weekend, and i can assure you that the names drum n bass and jungle were synonomous. I have loads of mixtpaes from that era with mc's using the term drum n bass on mic. if i had the time id dig them out and post them but i dont.

I will admit that nowadays they have come to represent to different things, but back in the day they were the same. There were a few different reasons that the tern 'jungle' got pushed aside...

then in 00's people started recreating that early jungle sound, which sounded decidely different to the dnb being produced and this lead the distinction we have today between jungle and dnb....

the same thng kinda happened when 'rap' music became 'hip hop' .

at least that how i remember it. but those were hazy dayz

you can do a lot with one bpm though, I remember being surprised the first time I heard Mountain Dread March, it's rushed and upbeat

timmyyabas wrote:

holy fuck!! haha thanks for this!

One of my favorite Harcore-Jungle crossover

93 Reinforced bizniss

Coincidentally I have just made myself a hardcore/jungle mix....

This should help/confuse u guys more over the difference between hardcore and jungle...

Soundcloud

@robbiej: Gonna have to disagree with you. I'm also an old man and was there in the early days. I fully admit that the period of the sound being strictly called 'Jungle' was very short (perhaps a year or so) but enough to warrant the 'lolno'. Maybe it's not long enough to bring it up if this was a day-to-day conversation but if it's a thread where people are trying to distinguish between the two then i'd say it is.
Jungle then Drum & Bass.
Just so we're clear, robbiej, i'm not saying you're lying or that you're remembering it wrong i'm just saying that my experience of that time is different to yours. Anecdotal evidence, and all that.

Alistairr wrote:Coincidentally I have just made myself a hardcore/jungle mix....

This should help/confuse u guys more over the difference between hardcore and jungle...

Soundcloud

havin' a listen now, whats the first tune? i know the kinda horn loop (maybe not a horn, but seems like some sort of blown instrument anyway) from some dnb tune and that percussive sound from firestarter. actually you got a tracklist for the lot? i'm sure i'll be askin' about more later.

this is what got me into hardcore/jungle in the first place.

edit - ahh the horn track i guess, i just downloaded it and didn't check the soundcloud comments, anyway tracklisting would be cool, i know some of these tunes from old skool mixes n stuff.

^^First tune sounds a lot like Horns for '94

This isn't an exact guideline as there is faster jungle and it is still around today - but as a rule of thumb....
Jungle - 1993 - 2000 - 160bpm - 170bpm
DnB - 2000 - 2012 - 170bpm - 185bpm

Thats coming from somebody with a pretty extensive collection of Dnb/Jungle. Still got original presses of Ram 004 - Valley of the Shadows, Mickey Finn Arsonist and Remarc - Ricky (amongst others....)

it was dnb by 97. jungle died in 96.

bad company - the nine was out in 98 and that certainly aint jungle. new forms was out in 97. remarc pretty much stopped putting tunes out in 97 coz it had all went a bit dnb. bizzy b dropped out the scene about then aswell and bay b kane a little earlier.

Laszlo wrote:@robbiej: Gonna have to disagree with you. I'm also an old man and was there in the early days. I fully admit that the period of the sound being strictly called 'Jungle' was very short (perhaps a year or so) but enough to warrant the 'lolno'. Maybe it's not long enough to bring it up if this was a day-to-day conversation but if it's a thread where peopple are trying to distinguish between the two then i'd say it is.
Jungle then Drum & Bass.
Just so we're clear, robbiej, i'm not saying you're lying or that you're remembering it wrong i'm just saying that my experience of that time is different to yours. Anecdotal evidence, and all that.

heres a clip of fearless using drum n bass and junglist in the same sentence on stage with dj hype in early 1995. glad im not the only old timer on here

Soundcloud

Jungle is dubstap