Dubstepforum.com

If you don't do any mixing as you go won't you loose track of elements in the mix? Like a particular percussion hit
could loose it's body because of another hits reverb etc.

I make my drums first/mix them. Make everything else/EQ a little bit to get the nasty sounds out/Mix at the end.

But I suck at mixing so don't mind me. ...... ......... .......HERP DERP

Some good stuff in here

I sort of fall between the two these days... I always mixed as I went when I had time to make tunes, but not get obsessed with little details and make a great-sounding shit tune that I hated. Rather have a skanky banger, all the way.

These days though, on the rare occasion I mix it's usually for someone else. Therefore I'm totally separated from the creative bit and possibly as a result, these mixes come out better in most cases.

When you're doing it all yourself, there's also sound selection to consider. That is, if you try to do as little mixing as possible while writing, you might find you just pick better sounds in the first place and the tune mixes itself t a greater extent - saving you time later. That's certainly something that's developed for me over the years. I used to think 'Hmm if I use this sound and noisereduce/eq/comp/expand/MBcomp/image it then I might be able to use it'... now I just pick a better sound. Unless a sample is so badarse it HAS to go in the track of course...

Anyway, interesting stuff. Love seeing and hearing how different people do things, I find it fascinating

not dissimilar from macc, but this is something i think/thought about all the time, mainly to not waste time un-doing and re-doing mix decisions at a lower volume.

Think of making decisions in an order, from big ones down to little ones. cutting out the chorus and changing the lead instrument are big, meaningful decisions. compression ratios are not. so if the mixdown is the final sound of the tune, work in that order-- as I write, I'm more concerned about the arrangement, and work to keep my ears open to any sonic, instrumentation, groove, pitch, etc clashes.

otherwise, provided you stay out of the red when writing, you're fine. once i've got an actual flow of a tune, just just a good 8 bars of a loop, i'll start building a rough mix based on what's there-- group some elements together, make more specific decisions on space, etc.

do that too early and you may be fighting against various signal routings, compressions setups and the like-- which is never fun.

macc wrote:Some good stuff in here

I sort of fall between the two these days... I always mixed as I went when I had time to make tunes, but not get obsessed with little details and make a great-sounding shit tune that I hated. Rather have a skanky banger, all the way.

These days though, on the rare occasion I mix it's usually for someone else. Therefore I'm totally separated from the creative bit and possibly as a result, these mixes come out better in most cases.

When you're doing it all yourself, there's also sound selection to consider. That is, if you try to do as little mixing as possible while writing, you might find you just pick better sounds in the first place and the tune mixes itself t a greater extent - saving you time later. That's certainly something that's developed for me over the years. I used to think 'Hmm if I use this sound and noisereduce/eq/comp/expand/MBcomp/image it then I might be able to use it'... now I just pick a better sound. Unless a sample is so badarse it HAS to go in the track of course...

Anyway, interesting stuff. Love seeing and hearing how different people do things, I find it fascinating

Interesting. In a similar vein to what you said about picking the right sounds, sometimes I find tunes that I don't bother mixing (much) as I go don't tend to need so much processing in the end anyway. I remember finally understanding about fitting elements into the correct frequency range and basically band passing every instrument in to its own zone, which works in terms of clashing freqs but sounds kind of sterile.

Aye - it seemed (seems?) to be fashionable with the internet and whatnot; 'everything has to have its own space, man'.

Cue people bandpassing everything. There's nothing wrong with blending/crossing over in the frequency domain...it's natural! And it sounds great when, chosen/executed correctly. Again, at the risk of being an old fart... Look to real bands/orchestras for example. You don't see the oboe and clarinet in an orchestra playing through differently-set bandpass filters.

Another thing I'll touch on in this article jobby, if I ever get time/inclination to finish it...

macc wrote:
Another thing I'll touch on in this book jobby, if I ever get time/inclination to finish it...

MAKE IT HAPPEN.


Touching on both you, Mr TheRapist (lol) Mr Sharm said...

I find these days that Ive whittled down my sound choices and got my playing of velocity down that gain structurally I hardly ever turn things up/down and if I do its because I want it low in the mix in general..

I am not saying my music or mixing is flawless but much like old orchestra or jazz recordings I feel like a lot mixing down for me is down to how I am playing things opposed to loads of processing and slider movement; it makes things feel more natural and if a couple of drum hits are louder than they 'should' be (when I am making a track where I play the drums in live..) I generally leave it.

theres pro's and con's to both i think, i usually mix mostly while im going along and then sort things out properly at the end but because i mix as i go along then alot of my stuff is left unfinished because i lose the motivation and the ideas i had when i started the track.
then again, i cant make a track and have it sound awful and totally unmixed cos that throws me off too.

i try to find a kind of happy medium nowadays!

legend4ry wrote: I find these days that Ive whittled down my sound choices and got my playing of velocity down that gain structurally I hardly ever turn things up/down and if I do its because I want it low in the mix in general..
I am not saying my music or mixing is flawless but much like old orchestra or jazz recordings I feel like a lot mixing down for me is down to how I am playing things opposed to loads of processing and slider movement; it makes things feel more natural and if a couple of drum hits are louder than they 'should' be (when I am making a track where I play the drums in live..) I generally leave it.

I've also wondered why no one really mentions velocity as an option to include more dynamics in a tune as opposed to riding the faders. After all, fortissimo and pianissimo, and other instrumental articulations, were intended to be part of the composition process. From my experience, it greatly improved my ability to build proper gain structure as it definitely simplified the process.

As stated earlier, I make all the stems separately and bounce them out to audio for mixing. However, while I am making the stems, I usually have the mix lingering in the back of my mind, so the tweaks I have to make in the mixing stage are minimal. I do somewhat mix as I go, though, because I mix at the same time as I do the arrangement of the track.

in my opinion, when you sit down and make a track, it's natural that you do it because you're inspired (well, not always) so it's good to focus on arranging the song. but if you really have to treat a track with eq a little, you should do it - the final absorbing mixdown should be left for later, as focusing on it as you go may spoil your inspiration.. that's what I think

Yeah - pretty much very similar to what Big Macc and Dave Sharm said...


When I write, I usually have a kernel of an idea - so I do what I can to sketch out the idea as quickly as possible and vibe off it for a bit. Let my inspiration inspire secondary inspiration, etc... during that first purge, all I care about about is keeping shit out of the red. Other than that, whilst sculpting the soul of the track- my mixing is a bit sloppy, i use mad presets (both on synths and FX). Assuming I don't have kids asking me to make them a snack or the phone ringing, I usually can bang this out in like 10-30 minutes.

However - once I get that idea locked... once I know what the identity of the track is, and how I want it to unfold, then I work rather slowly. I start really getting picking about my mixing, shaping sounds, tweaking parameters of fx and synths (sometimes I create a new patch from scratch), etc. It is as that point that I mix as I write.


Now, it is never exactly the same each time... cos inspiration comes from so many different places. Sometimes it is a melody hook that gets in my head... sometimes it is a rhythm... sometimes is it an abstract idea or sometimes it is a phrase of words... and sometimes it comes from spending a day sounding designing and field recording. so of course, depending on the original inspiration, the initial writing methodology can change...

As OP said OG, both, it has to be. If you bring an element into a track and it is 2x louder than it will end up in the final mix, you'll be like that shit is hitting hard as you are working, and then later when you balance everything in a final mix, that element is now a little sheep and it doesn't drive the track the way you need it to. This leads to hijinx.

So you've got to mix as you go, to an extent, or you will likely be making bad voicing decisions.

Another consideration, at least the way I've been working for some time now, is I resample, like, mostly everything, and resequence, so once that shit is in audio, it gets a lot harder to cleanly drop the snare by 6db, when it is recorded in a full drum/percussion buss. So, I need to really focus on the mix before creating submixes. Like a little mix session within a writing session. With that said, I still get way too emotionally involved with tracks as I'm working on them, so totally lose perspective, and end up with snares that are 6db TOO loud that end up getting printed to audio. Then I either have to fix it in the mix, or sub mix at least, and that is a shit option for cleanliness, but my option for realness, like my real badness.

Anyway, I'm getting way quicker with my ears, and my basic mix tools, ie volume, eq, compression, limiting, so I am making better faster choices that more closely resemble the considered decisions of a final mix. But still, I'm sorely lacking.

All that said, a cool considered final mix is still important in the end if you lose perspective/objectivity the way I do.

I'm still new to mixing, but here's how I tend to do things.

First I start with my drums and get them all at the basic levels I want. Since I do my drums first I just do a rough mix on vol, and basic eqing before I add other elements.

Then I arrange my drums.

Then I add bass, be it more brostep, or dubstep or whatever, I could care less about genre turf wars, I just want to make the best song I can. So I add the bass in rough form and rough mix it in with the drums.

Then I add synth and greeble. Since I suck at melody I tend to focus more on just filling things out and breaking things up. Then I rough mix it all together and then step the flack away from the track for at least a day.

When I go back i first listen to a rendered out version of the song and decide what needs to be tweaked.

Usually I just go in and adjust vol levels, and pan. Then add reverb and any other FX I want to use. I only just started using compression, and so far I only use the free easyNYC vst, and use the punch setting for my kick and snares. Honestly my system is crap so adding too many plug-ins laggs it to hell, so I try to keep things simple and just focus on making interesting sounding tracks.

Sometimes if a track is really not working I will go in and flat line everything, then add it back one track at a time till it works better.

So... I guess I do both, depending on what the track needs at the time.I have a very off the cuff, organic way of doing things to start with and the limitations of using a 6 year old computer with acid music studio tends to restrict me. It also helps me stay creative since I have to figure out my own solutions, so it's not all bad...

Sorry for yaking your ears off.

i mainly mix down last, however i make my kicks, snares & bass sounding the best it can and clear as possible quite early as im creating the song so that way i dont get bored, every other sound wont be mixed down. after iv finished the song i bounce the bass & intro sections since they take up the most cpu.
next i EQ everything then i listen to the song a few times and think of ways i can make better transitions & also i add more FX if i feel i need to.
then when iv mixed down the best i can the last thing i do is lightly add harmonics/character to any sound that i feel needs a bit of life by using saturation/distortion, exciters, pultec eq, compression etc..
i always tend to do things in that same kind of order.

i cant say iv ever done a mixed down, always as i go. i feel i get lost if do, when i do it as i go im making things for a certain spot in the mix rather than peice it together at the end. probably why my tunes sound like shit.

for me, i made a template that is roughly mix so i can load it up and start with the creative process of laying down interesting melody and bass lines. i have the drums, bass, and the sub bass mix to prefer levels so minimal amount of my time and effort goes to mixing and the majority goes to actually laying stuff down. its all about being cost efficient so you don't lose your creative mojo

always as I produce
later on I will make fine adjustments
but I generally want my mix to be correct from the start

It's not the mixdown unless you do it at the end.

The mixdown is a musical process not a technical one.

(imo etc. etc.)

I also do a rough mix as I go but do a final mix at the end, but to what degree really depends on the type of music I make. Lately I've been working on some 'crossbreed' shit.. basically (noisy, distorted) industrial hardcore mixed with (clean) hardstep drum n bass and I want a huge, noisy, in your face kick that has strong mids, a heavy sub and biting highs.... ..but I also need a melody, breaks and a hard snare in there. So mixing down is kinda incorperated in the sound design if I want that all to work together.