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Sonika wrote:

Immerse wrote:

Sonika wrote: Ableton - constant switching between the windows, a pain in the ass, and the arrange window is incredibly inefficient

I never find myself switching between and windows. the only 'windows' i think you might be referring to are arrange and session view?

Yup, that's what I mean. It's constant and super annoying.

I'm guessing you're not fond of FL Studio then.

Killamike49 wrote:

Sonika wrote:

Immerse wrote:

Sonika wrote: Ableton - constant switching between the windows, a pain in the ass, and the arrange window is incredibly inefficient

I never find myself switching between and windows. the only 'windows' i think you might be referring to are arrange and session view?

Yup, that's what I mean. It's constant and super annoying.

I'm guessing you're not fond of FL Studio then.

I've actually never used it - I've used logic and Ableton heavily, ad toyed around with Digital Performer, Reason, and Pro Tools.
Does it have a ton of switching different views and stuff?

I love Ableton. The way it looks, the way it feels, my favourite producers use it, but I just can't use it!

I spend about 45 mins just trying to get the basics down - a drum beat, a bassline, synth etc.

In FL, I absolutely loathe it, it feels so tacky and unprofessional, but I can get a good sounding tune going within 25 minutes, with no trouble.

I wish it was the opposite, because I much prefer Ableton... gah.

Dude, windows, on windows.

This picture is deceptively neat. It's usually a clusterfuck, if you don't know how to manage the windows and such, but's it's really easy to get into and start making tunes.

Killamike49 wrote:Dude, windows, on windows.

This picture is deceptively neat. It's usually a clusterfuck, if you don't know how to manage the windows and such, but's it's really easy to get into and start making tunes.

Holy shit! Well I don't think I could ever navigate that, and if you can, then you're a better man than I.

those dubspot and vespers videos were a real help, if your new or even more experienced with ableton definately worth checking them out. even vespers videos where he just talked about production were helpfull in just thinking more about how you go about your productions

Killamike49 wrote:Dude, windows, on windows.

This picture is deceptively neat. It's usually a clusterfuck, if you don't know how to manage the windows and such, but's it's really easy to get into and start making tunes.

Shit, that`s a mess.
Why would you need to work on soo many things at once?

Electric_Head wrote:

Killamike49 wrote:Dude, windows, on windows.

This picture is deceptively neat. It's usually a clusterfuck, if you don't know how to manage the windows and such, but's it's really easy to get into and start making tunes.

Shit, that`s a mess.
Why would you need to work on soo many things at once?

You wouldn't. I hate the way this guy has it set up, even though it's probably just to show all the things that comes with it, but it's the neatest I've ever seen it. Haha.
I usually have the playlist in the back to arrange, the step sequencer on top to make patterns, and the plugin I'm actually working with on top of that. I think it's pretty easy to navigate once you get used to it. The same as any other DAW, i'd reckon.
But we digress.

Sonika wrote:

Immerse wrote:

Sonika wrote: Ableton - constant switching between the windows, a pain in the ass, and the arrange window is incredibly inefficient

I never find myself switching between and windows. the only 'windows' i think you might be referring to are arrange and session view?

Yup, that's what I mean. It's constant and super annoying.

I don't find myself having to switch between them that much actually. There's only like 2 or 3 things that I switch the view over to do

Sine69 wrote:

Sonika wrote:

Immerse wrote:

Sonika wrote: Ableton - constant switching between the windows, a pain in the ass, and the arrange window is incredibly inefficient

I never find myself switching between and windows. the only 'windows' i think you might be referring to are arrange and session view?

Yup, that's what I mean. It's constant and super annoying.

I don't find myself having to switch between them that much actually. There's only like 2 or 3 things that I switch the view over to do

yeah just like me, only for the sends and recording

@sonika, dont mean to butt in but switching between session & arrangement is simply a click of the tab key... dont see how one can deem that "super annoying"

and @op definitely check out Tom Cosm & AscianUK's videos on youtube as well, those guys have helped me an insane amount, especially cosm, hes an absolute genius with ableton (Ascian's videos are more geared toward dubstep specifically)

Hey guys, another ableton guru here, Tom Cosm. Videos are extremely useful. http://www.youtube.com/user/cosmcosm?feature=watch Want to get into ableton, but i find it's audio editing facilities a pretty crap. I mean "click to load an external audio editor" WTF?

I hear good things about Ableton, I know that no DAW is really better than another, but I've always been interested in Ableton because of it's built in Synths and effects.

I would like to know how you guys go about working in Ableton? Seems hard with all the Clip view and Arrangement view stuff, I get confused on how I should lay things out, and what I should do first.

So my question is, what is your typical work flow in Ableton? When it comes to recording midi, and arranging it? I try to copy and paste the clips I record into the arrangement view, but that seems tedious? Has to be something I'm missing on why this program is so amazing, I can't do anything quickly in it, takes me forever!

Also, anyone tried rewiring it into FL? I bet that'd beast! I'm going to try it

MKRUGGER wrote:I know that no DAW is really better than another

How do you know that? That is just something everyone tells newbies so they don't think it is the daw that is holding them back, because 99.99% it isn't the daw that is holding them back, it is their own inexperience, which must be overcome first (which isn't so easy).

But there is great variety between the daws. Protools awesome for tracking and mixing, flstudio awesome for beats and dance music, ableton for performance. Yes, you can use any daw for any of these things, but they're going to be clunky and awkward outside of their natural specialty. Just saying.

best trick is to read the manual
you will be surprised how many hidden gems there are inside

MKRUGGER wrote:I hear good things about Ableton, I know that no DAW is really better than another, but I've always been interested in Ableton because of it's built in Synths and effects.

I would like to know how you guys go about working in Ableton? Seems hard with all the Clip view and Arrangement view stuff, I get confused on how I should lay things out, and what I should do first.

So my question is, what is your typical work flow in Ableton? When it comes to recording midi, and arranging it? I try to copy and paste the clips I record into the arrangement view, but that seems tedious? Has to be something I'm missing on why this program is so amazing, I can't do anything quickly in it, takes me forever!

Also, anyone tried rewiring it into FL? I bet that'd beast! I'm going to try it

ableton strenght is that there isn't only a single workflow
you can go with session view, arranger view, impro, follow actions, mangling others material via live clip/DSP, joining different projects, unlinked automations madness, max4live crazyness, apc works and really anything..
its flexibility is unreal,
composing with session view, processing/automating with live clip and arranging with arranger view clearly is the more fast and efficient workflow but really you can do all you want (except advanced midi editing which is live weaker side)

yes, you will be switching between session view and arrangement view in ableton frequently, but it is not a problem unless you are annoyed by the simple task of hitting the tab button. i actually enjoy having the two views because it represents the two states of mind that a producer uses when making a song. the arrangement view is perfect for designing the composition of your tracks. you don't need to worry about the mixer when you are banging out a melody or drum pattern. then when you've got your midi/audio laid out in arrangement view, you can switch to session view and pull up the mixers so you can mix down your tracks. if you mix too much as you are trying to compose an idea, you're going to lose that idea. so the fact that they are separate really drives the point home: arrange when you need to arrange, and mix when you need to mix. ableton's dual views lets you avoid confusing these two mindsets.

also, ableton is so much simpler where it counts, in my opinion. fucking around with busses in logic to sidechain something really kills my workflow. in ableton, all i have to do is drop a compressor on the track and select the sidechain trigger. if i want a new midi track, i intuitively hit ctrl shift t. simple as that.

in ableton, you don't need to worry about "tools" i.e. the scissor tool etc. that make you feel like you're working in photoshop or something. once you've memorized the keyboard shortcuts in ableton, chopping audio clips, moving midi up and down octaves, duplicating automation/envelopes becomes second nature. after a year or two as an ableton user, you don't even realize you are hitting shortcuts, you just instinctively press the buttons and let your creativity go wild without worrying about the technical aspects of it all.

yes i am an ableton fanboy, but i figured if the logic fanboys are gonna rave about logic then i might as well too.

nowaysj wrote:

MKRUGGER wrote:I know that no DAW is really better than another

How do you know that? That is just something everyone tells newbies so they don't think it is the daw that is holding them back, because 99.99% it isn't the daw that is holding them back, it is their own inexperience, which must be overcome first (which isn't so easy).

But there is great variety between the daws. Protools awesome for tracking and mixing, flstudio awesome for beats and dance music, ableton for performance. Yes, you can use any daw for any of these things, but they're going to be clunky and awkward outside of their natural specialty. Just saying.

Yes I agree.

It depends how you take in what I said though. The way I intended it is that you can create the same things in any DAW and no DAW is exactly "better" But some DAW's can do certain things Better / Easier than another, but in the end they are basically the same.

Or you could just say I said that so I wouldn't get the newbie response.

One of the things that really helped me when starting out in Ableton was ignoring the Session View altogether and working entirely in Arrangement.
Seriously, you don't really need Session View if you're just producing and once you do it's a breeze to hit 'tab' and switch windows.

I don't understand people that just use live's arrangement view. It is primitive compared to any other daw's arrange page. I don't get it.