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Don't think "what does this tune need?"
Think "what could I do with this tune?"

Kochari wrote:Don't think "what does this tune need?"
Think "what could I do with this tune?"

Awesome advice

hutyluty wrote:As someone said, the musical inbreeding, as it were comes about by lots of producers copying the same sounds and using the same tutorials. A lot of people seem more interested in being an 'insert genre' producer rather than simply creatively expressing themselves. I'm not just talking about brostep either, its been happening slightly with the 808 housey stuff and to a much greater extent in the dungeon sound.

Interesting post. In my experience you can be equally boring thinking "I must tick all the right boxes to write a dungeon tune" or thinking "I must tick as many wrong boxes as possible to write a totally original tune that doesn't conform to subgenre expectations". Conversely, if you just write a tune to express yourself or create a vibe then it doesn't really matter whether you listen to 17 different genres a day or only listen to one style, it'll probably come out sounding more individual and interesting.

slothrop wrote:

hutyluty wrote:As someone said, the musical inbreeding, as it were comes about by lots of producers copying the same sounds and using the same tutorials. A lot of people seem more interested in being an 'insert genre' producer rather than simply creatively expressing themselves. I'm not just talking about brostep either, its been happening slightly with the 808 housey stuff and to a much greater extent in the dungeon sound.

Interesting post. In my experience you can be equally boring thinking "I must tick all the right boxes to write a dungeon tune" or thinking "I must tick as many wrong boxes as possible to write a totally original tune that doesn't conform to subgenre expectations". Conversely, if you just write a tune to express yourself or create a vibe then it doesn't really matter whether you listen to 17 different genres a day or only listen to one style, it'll probably come out sounding more individual and interesting.

I'd have to disagree there- in my view 9 times out of ten someone who tries to make a "totally original tune that doesn't conform to subgenre expectations" is going to be making more interesting music than someone copying the style completely of another artist, or trendy scene at the moment. I wasn't advocating going completely against whatever was relevant though- by all means let things influence the creative process, I mean it'd be really hard and counter intuitive not to really! But yeah, having a set goal in mind either way would not seem a healthy way to make music imo.

The thing is, with the internet now being as it is, it is all too easy to find tutorials, on both youtube and this forum, so that when a producer gets started they can begin to make the exact noises and sounds which are in their favourite tune, I mean on this forum there are hundreds of- how do I make this wobble/atmosphere/snare/whatever. People aren't being influenced by sounds any more, they're replicating them completely- meaning any originality in those first aggressive tearout tunes or Kryptic Minds rollers are lost in a sea of imitators and eveything stagnates.

Tl:dr- i think as a new producer you don't have to try to be original but please dont try and make stuff which has been made a million times before.

No more samples from that rasta vocals pack from ages ago and we're fine haha

hutyluty wrote:I'd have to disagree there- in my view 9 times out of ten someone who tries to make a "totally original tune that doesn't conform to subgenre expectations" is going to be making more interesting music than someone copying the style completely of another artist, or trendy scene at the moment.

Yeah, okay, that was maybe putting it strongly.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I find I do a lot better if I avoid either thinking "I've got to use this sound at this point otherwise I won't fit into the genre" or "I mustn't use this sound at this point because it's too stereotypical for this genre" and think "does this sound at this point work with the vibe I'm trying to create or the feeling I'm trying to express.

Also I guess I like quite a lot of producers who work in a fairly tightly constricted style but use it with a lot of individuality and expressiveness - minimal subs and amens junglists like Equinox, f'rinstance, or minimal techno guys.

slothrop wrote: I guess what I'm getting at is that I find I do a lot better if I avoid either thinking "I've got to use this sound at this point otherwise I won't fit into the genre" or "I mustn't use this sound at this point because it's too stereotypical for this genre" and think "does this sound at this point work with the vibe I'm trying to create or the feeling I'm trying to express.

Also I guess I like quite a lot of producers who work in a fairly tightly constricted style but use it with a lot of individuality and expressiveness - minimal subs and amens junglists like Equinox, f'rinstance, or minimal techno guys.

Yeah I see your point, shying away from a certain sound just because its generic is a bit silly, I think we both agree whatever fits the vibe of what youre on at the moment is the best way to go- being too conscious with your decisions is not.

I find the what i make fluctuates from genre to genre pretty randomly, i never really stick to one style for very long

Sinestepper wrote:

Kochari wrote:Don't think "what does this tune need?"
Think "what could I do with this tune?"

Awesome advice

Still thinking on this, care to expound?

nowaysj wrote:

Sinestepper wrote:

Kochari wrote:Don't think "what does this tune need?"
Think "what could I do with this tune?"

Awesome advice

Still thinking on this, care to expound?

Well basically mate, he's saying don't think "what does this tune need?", think "what could I do with this tune?".

Hope that helps.

Yeah, no.

Filthzilla wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

Sinestepper wrote:

Kochari wrote:Don't think "what does this tune need?"
Think "what could I do with this tune?"

Awesome advice

Still thinking on this, care to expound?

Well basically mate, he's saying don't think "what does this tune need?", think "what could I do with this tune?".

Hope that helps.

Filthzilla wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

Sinestepper wrote:

Kochari wrote:Don't think "what does this tune need?"
Think "what could I do with this tune?"

Awesome advice

Still thinking on this, care to expound?

Well basically mate, he's saying don't think "what does this tune need?", think "what could I do with this tune?".

Hope that helps.

That's not what expound means

If you think what a tune "needs" you're already ascribing to a preconcieved idea of what it should sound like. If you have an open mind and are willing to try anything, you'll never sound like you're imitating - even if the tune you're making ends up as dubstep, dnb, Brazilian electro-swing or whatever, it will still be entirely you, and dubstep only by chance. I'm talking about the actual writing part of the tune here, not the production itself. Its ok to think "this needs mroe compression and a boost at 2k", but its not ok (in my opinion) to think "this needs a 1/8th note wobble and shakers at the 16th bar". I think necessity has no place in creativity, save it for the mixdown.

Think I'm getting you.

From my way of looking at it though, it is the song that dictates what it needs, you know? Without being too fartsy, it is like as a producer, I'm a medium, or a midwife, my roll is to bring something that sort of already exists in another place into this common shared place. Whatever, too fartsy. I think we are saying the same thing, with exactly opposite words. Carry on w/ the thread

Its a difficult one, as to experiment is obviously a good thing but you don't want to get to the point of writing such different sounding stuff as to lose your consistency, which for me is the sign of a solid artist.

Consistency, speaking as a consumer? Or as a producer? As a producer, I look at variety, at riskx to indicate a solid artist, within songs, with in releases/ within trends. For me as a consumer, I don't like risk as much, I want consistency. That Sam Baker album kind of broke my heart, just pulled everything I loved about prior releases and just flushed it all. I respect Samiyam for doing that, nutting up to do that, but I sure wish it came out different for me.

As a consumer yes I want consistency and therefore because I like that in other peoples records I guess I automatically want my own (as a producer) to follow suit. I suppose it depends on your own definition of what is consistent. Finding the right balance between a style and experimentation?

Honestly, ive just been writing whatever comes to mind. Be it 140,170,180,130, doesn't matter, the melody or bassline in my head just needs to come out, I find that whenever I beatbox the song that is in my head, i take a diff direction with it. Idk. Just listen to yourself

Kochari wrote:

Filthzilla wrote:

nowaysj wrote:

Sinestepper wrote:

Kochari wrote:Don't think "what does this tune need?"
Think "what could I do with this tune?"

Awesome advice

Still thinking on this, care to expound?

Well basically mate, he's saying don't think "what does this tune need?", think "what could I do with this tune?".

Hope that helps.

That's not what expound means

If you think what a tune "needs" you're already ascribing to a preconcieved idea of what it should sound like. If you have an open mind and are willing to try anything, you'll never sound like you're imitating - even if the tune you're making ends up as dubstep, dnb, Brazilian electro-swing or whatever, it will still be entirely you, and dubstep only by chance. I'm talking about the actual writing part of the tune here, not the production itself. Its ok to think "this needs mroe compression and a boost at 2k", but its not ok (in my opinion) to think "this needs a 1/8th note wobble and shakers at the 16th bar". I think necessity has no place in creativity, save it for the mixdown.

My trolling must have been too subtle...

Filthzilla wrote:
My trolling must have been too subtle...

You still have much to learn about the ways of trolling the internets my friend