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so basically you are saying that dj's need to get more creative and involved in their music to a point where they can wow even the biggest druggie and make em all remember the tunes you played last night for a while? If so, thats a good point, even though it aint revolutionary or anything, its literally the fundamental aim that all dj's should go for, but only a few do I guess... liked the whole talking about the concept of a narrative in your sets, something that I try to do but eventually just end up mixing loads of stuff of the same kind and beat haha

you could've presented it in a better way but for an on-the-fly thing that was decent


edit: I need to try and catch a live set of yours (if you do them that is), after this little speech I'm well interested in seeing how you will approach a DJ set haha

JizzMan wrote:dj's need to get more creative and involved in their music

That's what I took from it.

So many djs just play whatever's cool or whatever's on swamp81 or numbers podcasts etc. without really thinking why - I think many are too scared to try anything other than that in case people don't get it.

albo wrote:

JizzMan wrote:dj's need to get more creative and involved in their music

That's what I took from it.

So many djs just play whatever's cool or whatever's on swamp81 or numbers podcasts etc. without really thinking why - I think many are too scared to try anything other than that in case people don't get it.

so true, the reason why people like Oneman can do an amazing set is because he doesnt stick to a genre but goes one step further and mixes different music together that he knows will bring the crowd together in appreciation for the sound

albo wrote:

JizzMan wrote:dj's need to get more creative and involved in their music

That's what I took from it.

So many djs just play whatever's cool or whatever's on swamp81 or numbers podcasts etc. without really thinking why - I think many are too scared to try anything other than that in case people don't get it.

Wish there was more nights that weren't just about tunes that "go off on the floor". Would love to be able to put a really experimental set together, but just don't know anywhere that wouldn't have an empty floor a minute in.

JizzMan wrote:so basically you are saying that dj's need to get more creative and involved in their music to a point where they can wow even the biggest druggie and make em all remember the tunes you played last night for a while? If so, thats a good point, even though it aint revolutionary or anything, its literally the fundamental aim that all dj's should go for, but only a few do I guess... liked the whole talking about the concept of a narrative in your sets, something that I try to do but eventually just end up mixing loads of stuff of the same kind and beat haha

you could've presented it in a better way but for an on-the-fly thing that was decent


edit: I need to try and catch a live set of yours (if you do them that is), after this little speech I'm well interested in seeing how you will approach a DJ set haha

It was more than that. I'm not just talking about DJs - I'm talking about what we can learn from DJs in terms of the interaction of ideas and cultures. That is to say, DJs don't and can't just jam things together and expect them to work, but have to learn a craft which enables them to spot the points of connection between records (and thus ideas) that nobody else would think to combine. When you hear a true genius like, say, Twitch from Optimo, or Oneman or Mala, they are manipulating the way you understand culture in real time. I'm old enough that some of my earliest introductions to what a DJ could do were the Orb / KLF (after all 'Chill Out' is pretty much a 45-minute DJ set), who could mix literally anything, from any era, to create a mood and interchange of thought, without having to worry about matching tempo or keeping the dancefloor full.


As for the delivery, well, it was an experiment with format. I was kind of doing what I described: forcing opposing ideas together to see how they mix... And also, while I'm all in favour of academic seminars on underground music, I think they can often become a deathly tedious clusterfuck too, so I want to look at ways of looking at serious ideas but maintaining the energy and ambiguities of the culture under discussion instead of going into that chin stroking, above-it-all mode. I'm not surprised many hated it, but enough people who've responded, both on the night and since, got what I was doing to have made it worthwhile. I love the fact that youtube has been absolutely dead level on "likes" and "dislikes" consistently.

The main criticisms have been interesting:

- "this makes no sense" ...no, it makes no sense to YOU, that's your problem

- "it's not funny" - fair enough

- "it's not making a coherent point" - who said it was meant to? I'm just chucking ideas around

- "this guy is no fun / must only go to shit clubs / isn't as cool as me" - way to miss the point: a) the negative part at the beginning is not intended to sum up my experiences - it's a condensed version of observation of many people over the years b) if you think your cool / brilliant / drug free etc club experiences are somehow separate from the shit stuff, you have your head buried in the sand. All of club life, good and bad, is part of the same social and economic machine, which is built on drink/drug consumption. It's great that some people are able to build something more intelligent, engaged and culturally valuable - but they are always building it from base materials. c) try basing your criticism on more than the title and the first three minutes, which are obviously taking the piss in any case!

- "this guy''s fat / mental / rubbish" - yeah fuck you too


As for DJing, I do play, I'm not a very good mixer and I tend to be extremely inconsistent in a club environment - probably because I go overboard with diverse selections but haven't got the skills to make it work... When it works it REALLY works though. I'm more of a bar DJ to be honest, I like Sunday afternoon sessions where you can really go round the houses.

I've been doing more online mixes lately, just getting to grips with what I can do with technology to make up for my malcoordination with a mixer... see this 'Thousand Tons Dream' mix, which features no beatmatching at all: http://soundcloud.com/veryverymuch/thousand-ton-dreams - or this one, which joins the dots between grime and electro - http://soundcloud.com/veryverymuch/joe- ... rectro-mix - or this one which mixes and matches a fair few genres at 156bpm http://soundcloud.com/ninja-tune/solid- ... -show-9-12

I really enjoyed your talk, thanks!

Watched a bit....I think it's over analysed.

All just need to chill...it's only DJing, there are good ones and bad ones. There people who take drugs and people who don't.

yeah just checked out your mixes on the soundcloud Joe, liking the 140's not dead one a lot haha

keep it up with more controversial talks man, keeps things interesting

Why you people don't understand point?

I think a lot of people watch the video from the 'wrong' perspective. I just thought 'this guy has a whole
bunch of experience, I bet he has something interesting to say'. Reading the comments I feel like
people expect to hear someone all-knowing cramp the world's wisdom about music into a 20 minute presentation
or something.

All in all, the talk leads to discussion and I'm sure it made people think about dj/club culture.

Perej wrote:
By the way, enlightenment has nothing to do with music.. zip, squelch, nada - sorry.
.

haven't watched the video yet but you just lost me completely right there buddy

JizzMan wrote: for an on-the-fly thing that was decent

Try talking about something you're passionate about in public for 20 mins without sweating or occasionally going a bit random. Not easy, nice one Joe

Perej wrote: enlightenment has nothing to do with music.. zip, squelch, nada - sorry.

I actually really enjoyed this. However, admittedly I can see how one might look at it and say "he's over analyzing it, it's not that serious" and I understand that, he probably is, but I think that's the point.

very good talk, thank you.

and btw, it is not at all over-analyzing.

joe muggs wrote:The main criticisms have been interesting:

- "this makes no sense" ...no, it makes no sense to YOU, that's your problem

- "it's not funny" - fair enough

- "it's not making a coherent point" - who said it was meant to? I'm just chucking ideas around

- "this guy is no fun / must only go to shit clubs / isn't as cool as me" - way to miss the point: a) the negative part at the beginning is not intended to sum up my experiences - it's a condensed version of observation of many people over the years b) if you think your cool / brilliant / drug free etc club experiences are somehow separate from the shit stuff, you have your head buried in the sand. All of club life, good and bad, is part of the same social and economic machine, which is built on drink/drug consumption. It's great that some people are able to build something more intelligent, engaged and culturally valuable - but they are always building it from base materials. c) try basing your criticism on more than the title and the first three minutes, which are obviously taking the piss in any case!

- "this guy''s fat / mental / rubbish" - yeah fuck you too

You seem to have taken the critism quite badly.. or literally just read the critism from idiots. You're completely writing off all critism of a video of you 'chucking ideas around'. If that is all you're doing, expect some conflicting views to those ideas. You can't please everybody, you seem a bit annoyed you haven't.. or at least the majority.

I also think you are wrong about criticism on the first 3 minutes. You gave that speech in a way which I found extremely hard to watch. You say you were obviously taking the piss, which I'd agree with.. it was obvious, far too obvious, it felt like you were trying extremely hard to put a point across while being as funny and appealling to the audience as possible and it made it very hard to watch and did make it seem like just mental rambling. I think most people are critising the way you presented it rather than its content. I assume the video was made to cause debate on the ideas you presented and it has certainly done that.. therefore you should expect conflicting views to those ideas and should not simply reject those conflicting views and fall back on the excuse of "yeah it was done on the fly".

You should never put across views/ideas in order to cause a debate if you are going to take negative views and critism in such a bad and personal way.

garethom wrote:Wish there was more nights that weren't just about tunes that "go off on the floor". Would love to be able to put a really experimental set together, but just don't know anywhere that wouldn't have an empty floor a minute in.

Ha, well if thats the case why not dedicate part of your set to being a bit riské/experimental? Start of with a few random songs, up it each time. Before you know it you're the next Oneman!

I wanted to go DMZs birthday in Amsterdam mainly for Oneman but couldn't afford it.. saw a video clip of him playing Blue Monday, Archangel and Millionaire all in the space of 4/5 songs. I wanted to cry a little at missing it but it did make me think "this is why he is, in my eyes, the best DJ in the world".

FU anybody who was there to witness his set btw.

just wondering, OP.. there's someone "joe" or "DJ Muggs" i can't recall at the moment, who spins dubstep something like Tuesday nights on Eminem's XM radio station Shade45.. is that you?

Cornbreadddd wrote:

Perej wrote: enlightenment has nothing to do with music.. zip, squelch, nada - sorry.

I actually really enjoyed this. However, admittedly I can see how one might look at it and say "he's over analyzing it, it's not that serious" and I understand that, he probably is, but I think that's the point.

Music has nothing to do with enlightenment. Enlightenment is the realization of the illusory nature of the ego. Music is not. He was talking about this as if it were some concept that was related to music, or anything within the world, which it isn't. Were you implying that I'm wrong by the facepalm? Not sure if srs

ghandi wrote:

JizzMan wrote: for an on-the-fly thing that was decent

Try talking about something you're passionate about in public for 20 mins without sweating or occasionally going a bit random. Not easy, nice one Joe

dont get me wrong I was complimenting him, definitely a talk well done

what a dick

absolutely hideous

Muncey wrote:
You seem to have taken the critism quite badly.. or literally just read the critism from idiots. You're completely writing off all critism of a video of you 'chucking ideas around'. If that is all you're doing, expect some conflicting views to those ideas. You can't please everybody, you seem a bit annoyed you haven't.. or at least the majority.

I also think you are wrong about criticism on the first 3 minutes. You gave that speech in a way which I found extremely hard to watch. You say you were obviously taking the piss, which I'd agree with.. it was obvious, far too obvious, it felt like you were trying extremely hard to put a point across while being as funny and appealling to the audience as possible and it made it very hard to watch and did make it seem like just mental rambling. I think most people are critising the way you presented it rather than its content. I assume the video was made to cause debate on the ideas you presented and it has certainly done that.. therefore you should expect conflicting views to those ideas and should not simply reject those conflicting views and fall back on the excuse of "yeah it was done on the fly".

Well... er.... no.

I haven't taken anything personally. I did it knowing there would be extreme reactions and there were - all cool. I haven't written off all criticism, just answered some of the points made. As I said, it was an experiment. I don't think it's the greatest achievement of mankind - it opened up a few ideas that have come up in my work and will continue to examine, but it's just a fat guy after a few drinks ranting about music at the end of the day... BUT I am still amused by how badly a lot of people miss the point and try and make up smart arse put-downs based entirely on what they assume my intentions to have been, not about what I actually said. That's all.