Dubstepforum.com

Tiger Blood wrote:is there a specific area of it? i checked the one at the top of the forum (a new version?) and it has so many links!

Will spend some time on it today though!

The top one, there is only 1 moneyshot: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=74832

Tiger Blood wrote:I was wondering if i want to mix the sounds should I aim to do with with the master faders for each channel or should i adjust the sound through a plugin on the channel e.g. a utility in ableton (or some other gain plugin) or lowering the output on a compressor so they balance with the faders set to default?

Just something thrown up by reading a few articles!

Doesn't really matter as it's the same. I use the channel faders as I find it faster than opening the utility. I use the gain utility to automate volume so you can still adjust the level with the channel fader without messing up the automation.

Tiger Blood wrote:

Electric_Head wrote:Ideally you want things to hit below 0db.
I tend to stick to a master mix of -3db.

yup seen a few youtube vids that say shoot for a good mix coming in at -3 to make space for mastering.

I was wondering if i want to mix the sounds should I aim to do with with the master faders for each channel or should i adjust the sound through a plugin on the channel e.g. a utility in ableton (or some other gain plugin) or lowering the output on a compressor so they balance with the faders set to default?

Just something thrown up by reading a few articles!

What I like to do is get my levels around where I want them to be while leaving all my master faders at 0 (there are plenty of chances to tweak the volume in the effects chain before it gets to the master). That way I can use the master faders for more final tweaks in the mix down and getting the mix to sit at the db level that I want it to. Like if I mix everything so the track is sitting at around -2, all I have to do for more headroom without affecting the mix is lower the master faders by 2 or 3 db. That's more just a personal preference though, it doesn't REALLY matter so long as you aren't playing with the master track's fader.

alpz wrote:

Tiger Blood wrote:

Electric_Head wrote:Ideally you want things to hit below 0db.
I tend to stick to a master mix of -3db.

yup seen a few youtube vids that say shoot for a good mix coming in at -3 to make space for mastering.

I was wondering if i want to mix the sounds should I aim to do with with the master faders for each channel or should i adjust the sound through a plugin on the channel e.g. a utility in ableton (or some other gain plugin) or lowering the output on a compressor so they balance with the faders set to default?

Just something thrown up by reading a few articles!

What I like to do is get my levels around where I want them to be while leaving all my master faders at 0 (there are plenty of chances to tweak the volume in the effects chain before it gets to the master). That way I can use the master faders for more final tweaks in the mix down and getting the mix to sit at the db level that I want it to. Like if I mix everything so the track is sitting at around -2, all I have to do for more headroom without affecting the mix is lower the master faders by 2 or 3 db. That's more just a personal preference though, it doesn't REALLY matter so long as you aren't playing with the master track's fader.

so can i not just mix sound it all sounds fine hitting as high as 0db and then just turn everything down to allow 4-6db of space? so its all still the same levels just quieter overall? or is that not the idea?

You can turn down your master but your individual channels will clip.
Just select all the channels and turn them all down by a db or 2.

If you do that and leave the master fader at neutral, you'll see that you are clipping. If you turn the master fader down, the signals still clip on the way in, you just don't see it.

Try one method, then the other to see which sounds best.

The idea is that you dont have to turn stuff down (battle for headroom) as you'll never clip with proper gain staging. I don't understand why you'd want to mix to the ceiling and most likely clip at some point and turn everything down if you can get it right from the get go. Just turn up the volume on your speakers or interface if isn't loud enough for you.

took all your advice in guys, i went through every instrument and balanced its levels in the mix so that the buss fader is at 0 but all the elements in the bus are balanced and dont clip at all. Then put all elements together and made sure nothing clipped due to clashing EQ and tried to get a few Db of headroom in there (kick and snare were main issues there).

I then put an Ozone pre-set over it since i dont know how to master (yet) that wounded the best and hasnt screwed anything up (checked witha whole bunch of EQ)

Result is a loud track that has zero clipping on any channels, no red anywhere.

Could anyone let me know if this sounds like a good result and how muddy the mix is in terms of EQ? I think ive got a decent hang of it?

Cheers!

EDIT: Thinking about it if all i have done so far is make sure every things as loud as it can be without clipping and leaving headroom it hasn't been properly mixed in terms of variable loudness? probably something i need to look at!

Soundcloud
I know the track its self needs work which ill do for the rest of the day, just wanted to give all this a go!

This is not something you learn overnight, just practice practice practice. You'll hear the improvent over time. Also from what you're saying I think you're focused too much on the loudness part, that should be the least of your worries tbh.

Project EX wrote:This is not something you learn overnight, just practice practice practice. You'll hear the improvent over time. Also from what you're saying I think you're focused too much on the loudness part, that should be the least of your worries tbh.

nope im just concerned with loudness in terms of clipping.

Im pretty happy with the track ive linked in terms of mix and master and balance now, ive scaled it out and what I would called 'finished' it so i dont really know what more i can do with it now:

Soundcloud

Just turning individual channels down, the simplest but possibly most effective way of keeping a mix under control. Quite often it really is better to pull something down a couple DB's rather then compressing or sidechaining the hell out of it.
If its under zero, its technically not clipping. Now there are of course a thousand ways to create extra and possibly unwanted harmonics still, but thats part of the fun. If it sounds good it usually is good.

Project EX wrote:

Tiger Blood wrote:is there a specific area of it? i checked the one at the top of the forum (a new version?) and it has so many links!

Will spend some time on it today though!

The top one, there is only 1 moneyshot: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=74832

Tiger Blood wrote:I was wondering if i want to mix the sounds should I aim to do with with the master faders for each channel or should i adjust the sound through a plugin on the channel e.g. a utility in ableton (or some other gain plugin) or lowering the output on a compressor so they balance with the faders set to default?

Just something thrown up by reading a few articles!

Doesn't really matter as it's the same. I use the channel faders as I find it faster than opening the utility. I use the gain utility to automate volume so you can still adjust the level with the channel fader without messing up the automation.

I'm sorry, it definitely does matter. Faders are post plugin.

If you are using a plugin that is a hardware emulation, or a plugin that is expecting an input of around 0VU, you can cause audible distortion by running in levels that are too hot, only to reduce the gain with the channel faders later on in the signal path. In many cases the plugins sound at their best when they recieve an input at the right level, and can sound quite bad otherwise.

My comparison didn't include any plugins, also most have a i/o gain anyway so you can run it through as hot as you like and adjust the output.

Project EX wrote:My comparison didn't include any plugins, also most have a i/o gain anyway so you can run it through as hot as you like and adjust the output.

I agree. If you discount plugins then you can overload the channels to kingdom come, lower the master fader or channel fader, and everything is identical to if the levels were sensible the whole way through.

And yes, i/o gain combats this problem in a lot of cases, but it is another thing to adjust, and there are quite a few plugins without it. Plus you develop good habits in case you ever decide to work OTB, because then you'll need to work at a suitable reference and get your levels right the whole way through.