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This thread is depressing. I'm gonna go watch all 150 episodes Pokemon to cheer myself up.

garethom wrote:

teamhobson wrote:Another potential snh war thread from Wub, quality stuff.

Nah, it's been alright so far, barring Joeki's "provocative statement" about profit, but I've no doubt somebody will lose their shit.

SNH only has a problem when people will refuse even the thought of having their mind changed, or learning something from somebody else. Personally, I look forward to threads like these because I can learn from people that know more than me/have different thoughts on the issue.

Innit, these threads always have rakes of potential! Folk need to stop taking a difference of opinion as a personal attack.

I'd love to weigh in on this by the way, but it's waaaayyyy out of my depth.

wub wrote:1) What is depression? Is it a disease? A mental disorder? Biochemical imbalance? A brain dysfunction? A psychological syndrome? An existential or spiritual crisis?

2) How should be depression be treated and handled, both by the individual and society as a whole?

1) `Depression` is an overarching term for a set of SYMPTOMS that has a multitude of explanations. It appears that the drug companies fudge the reasons behind it to try picture it as a homogeneous, pervasive condition to sell a one-size-fits-all drug to `alleviate symptoms`. In reality it could be any of the reasons mentioned, or even more and then some combinations of them too.

2) Depression should be treated holistically, taking in to consideration a person`s entire life and environment. Society should try to help the individual as much as the individual should help society.

Anyone interested the whole story of how depression became a clinical diagnosis in the last 100 years should check out the statistics for drug trials first, and then the history of the diagnosis to see how it`s been constructed...

I think that there are many forms and causes of depression, i.e. it isn't a single disease/pathology/condition but a class of neurological/physical/psychological issues that manifest in broadly similar ways. Failure to understand the root cause in a given person can lead to the wrong treatment to be prescribed which might seem to help temporarily but doesn't do much long term. Alternatively, there's the ever popular sledgehammer approach of just chucking everything at it until something works. But I think that's simply because the root cause can be so difficult to identify.

I can't decide whether I went through clinical depression over periods of the last couple years or not, preferred working through it on my own rather than go to a GP/therapist as I'm fairly good at doing that. But it clearly wasn't just a case of feeling down as it was having physical effects on my body, most likely because it was inducing physical stress due to tension and changes in body posture. I also noticed a clear change in my level of interest in things around me, which was somewhat interesting I guess because I could identify the change but couldn't really bring myself to do anything about it. A bit like shutting down part of my brain and commenting on it but not doing anything to stop it. I'd just feel my energy levels completely drain down the moment I stepped in my flat. I'm fairly certain that this was all completely psychological in origin as I've managed to slowly talk myself through it each time it has occured, and I pretty much know the specific triggers each time.

As to other potential causes of depression, I can't say. At a guess there are several broad types: hereditary, random genetic changes, brain chemistry imbalance, neurological trauma, drug-induced, nuture, abuse. You can't expect all of these different roots causes to be treated by the same magic bullet. Especially if you're relying on a chemical fix because chemicals can and do interact very differently in different people.

^ less for me to verbalize now.

Everything is contextual and things need looking at from all angles. We live in a society that tends to shift public attention to numbing or alleviating symptoms as apposed to getting to the root cause of why they emerged in the first place.

Genetic or not, mindstates flourish or degenerate depending on the short and long distance environments they exist in- most are lucky enough to live relatively comfortable lives compared to most, but that doesn't mean to say comfort = happiness.

Often the last thing we look at is how we view ourselves in relation to notions like loss ,lack or separation. Things which are no doubt heavily influenced by our social views and things which form a core basis of depression.

Our sensibility for logic and reason has sky rocketed but our emotional sensibility seems to have been compromised as a result. We know the ins and outs of how" but often fall short on the how do we help part.

Apathy/indifference/or belief in lack of a voice are some of the biggest things people face.

In short ; "comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable"

Fav part of wubs threads are that he asks for structured responses, and at best will get one, but more often than not, get none whatsoever.

I've known a few people that I would call depressed. A couple now dead. Call that a disease, I'm not a diseasatition? So long as they don't have obligations, I say let them go. There isn't much reason to be alive, is there? The pleasures that people pull from life really seem so insubstantial, like actually inconceivable. Like you labor in misery for 12 hours a day for a life time so you can, one, remain alive, and two, collect snow globes (or donuts), really? If someone wants to get off that train, I cannot fault them.

I couldn't disagree more.
The thought of not being able to experience life frightens me.

I was talking to a friend of mine who I think provided some insight on this. She takes medication for depression, which she says help level her emotional plane out a little bit. her happiness is still entirely her own responsibility, but depression medication helps keep her from sinking into pits of depression for little to no reason. Conversely a friend of ours just started taking medication, and is quite frustrated that she isn't feeling any happier.

Electric_Head wrote:I couldn't disagree more.
The thought of not being able to experience life frightens me.

you get used to it after awhile.

nowaysj wrote:Fav part of wubs threads are that he asks for structured responses, and at best will get one, but more often than not, get none whatsoever.

I've known a few people that I would call depressed. A couple now dead. Call that a disease, I'm not a diseasatition? So long as they don't have obligations, I say let them go. There isn't much reason to be alive, is there? The pleasures that people pull from life really seem so insubstantial, like actually inconceivable. Like you labor in misery for 12 hours a day for a life time so you can, one, remain alive, and two, collect snow globes (or donuts), really? If someone wants to get off that train, I cannot fault them.

so if you can't fault them, help put safeguards for others and ourselves to not have to let it get to that point?

identifying a problem is one thing, solving it is another. doing nothing is just as much of a silent contribution for the status quo to continue.

feel better anyway,

future is as bright as the light we shine on it

Rightontime - Has your frustrated fried changed her life at all?
Or does she just take pharmaceuticals and change nothing?
That is what confuses me.
Surely it take some effort from the individual to change their mindset?

Nevalo - I honestly have no idea how you feel and have voiced this to you before.
I have never experienced anything but a single day of feeling down which has nothing to do with depression.
I would hate to be in a situation like yours or Jate for example.
I honestly feel for you guys.
But, from my perspective, life is absolutely amazing.
Not to say I don't have massive hardship to deal with at times but I've never felt majorly down.
I enjoy feeling alive.
Getting hurt in hockey, dislocating my finger, etc. some folks get upset where I feel alive.

Electric_Head wrote:Rightontime - Has your frustrated fried changed her life at all?
Or does she just take pharmaceuticals and change nothing?
That is what confuses me.
Surely it take some effort from the individual to change their mindset?

Nevalo - I honestly have no idea how you feel and have voiced this to you before.
I have never experienced anything but a single day of feeling down which has nothing to do with depression.
I would hate to be in a situation like yours or Jate for example.
I honestly feel for you guys.
But, from my perspective, life is absolutely amazing.
Not to say I don't have massive hardship to deal with at times but I've never felt majorly down.
I enjoy feeling alive.
Getting hurt in hockey, dislocating my finger, etc. some folks get upset where I feel alive.

Oh shit there was more to that. dun kno why I posted that and then meandered off.
nah she hasn't changed it at all. Still drinks a lot, then talks about drinking alot, and then skips class. She doesn't regularly see a therapist. Pretty much the opposite of friend 1, who is doing quite well for herself.

if we feel good and able,it's kind of a moral duty to help those who don't, whether or not we live by it at all times or not.

Knowing when and how to juggle time spent on the self and others is the tricky part though- if the rest of the world's not happy then none of us truly are.

nowaysj wrote:Fav part of wubs threads are that he asks for structured responses, and at best will get one, but more often than not, get none whatsoever.

I've known a few people that I would call depressed. A couple now dead. Call that a disease, I'm not a diseasatition? So long as they don't have obligations, I say let them go. There isn't much reason to be alive, is there? The pleasures that people pull from life really seem so insubstantial, like actually inconceivable. Like you labor in misery for 12 hours a day for a life time so you can, one, remain alive, and two, collect snow globes (or donuts), really? If someone wants to get off that train, I cannot fault them.

That is such a depressing viewpoint on life. Yep, I said it. Someone had to, might as well be me.

The substantiality of what people pull from life is completely up to themselves. You can either choose to labour in misery for most of your waking life and do nothing with the remainder, or you can labour for most of your waking life and go experience what the world has to offer with the remainder. There is so much in the world to explore (snowglobes included), enough to fill several lifetimes over.

Hell throwing snowglobes at a wall would make me happy as they exploded in a million shards of glass and fake plastic snow.
The little things I guess

RightOnTime27 wrote:I was talking to a friend of mine who I think provided some insight on this. She takes medication for depression, which she says help level her emotional plane out a little bit. her happiness is still entirely her own responsibility, but depression medication helps keep her from sinking into pits of depression for little to no reason. Conversely a friend of ours just started taking medication, and is quite frustrated that she isn't feeling any happier.

I think it takes about 4-5 weeks for it to begin to work, after that it builds up & works more so...

Electric_Head wrote: Nevalo - I honestly have no idea how you feel and have voiced this to you before.

i know, its never easy to explain.

for me its just feeling tired.
of life, of people, of just existing in general.

kay wrote:The substantiality of what people pull from life is completely up to themselves.

I think is the same thing as:

nowaysj wrote:If someone wants to get off that train, I cannot fault them.

and:

d-T-r wrote:future is as bright as the light we shine on it

So, we all agree.

its an exponential graph of all of the above, wub