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kreutzbube wrote:how much of the work is done by those that have written the software or samples u use?

dblue and Gregory C. Coleman are my ghost writers

Intriguing...
I really get what you're saying..... but aren't those tools? That's not the writing but the "pencil" you use to write with. Sure, using a sound someone else made and processing it with distortion someone else coded does the work for you, but it's not the original, creative writing.

*sigh*, I re-read your post and you mean that in a broad sense lol.... Nevermind!

kreutzbube wrote:in the broadest sense we all got our "ghostwriters". consider this: how much of the work is done by those that have written the software or samples u use? the actual artist is nothing more than the last part in a long chain of production steps that have preceded his own part in it and without which the final product, the tune, couldn't possibly exist. in fact it has become very very easy to make a good sounding tune with given software and samplepacks.

in the end the artists have to choose a certain level of "ghostwriting" they want to comply to. this is a question that is far more interesting: what are you guys really doing urselves - what is the work of others?

HAHA, piss off m8, thats nothing the same. Music isnt all about making things sound pristine, the person is the one that composes it. Obvs if they have a ghostwriter in then they arent composing it.

of course composing is the predominant domain of the common artist. but in large parts especially electronic musicians aren't good cause they are downright bright composers, in fact most compositions are pretty lowkey compared to other musical styles. so yes: it absolutely matters how your composition sounds, because thats the intriguing thing about electronic music - the ability to make the same chord progression or melody or whatever you lay your hands on sound in sheer limitless different ways.

besides keep in mind that many electronic musicians have a very different approach in composing music than you probably have. for example take ambient music, which comes from a more textural point of view. unless they are true musical geniuses, they will not have thier tunes completley mapped out in thier head when they make tunes. all they do is setting the boundaries in which the music will just happen - then they slightly cut it, eradicate the bad parts and highlight the good ones. thier role represents the role of a conductor more than a composer, whilst the software is actually composing.

also how much cool sounds have u discovered by trying to design something else, lets say some basic lead synth you had in mind, and in the end turned out to have something much cooler? in my opinion this is to be credited to the program u use. and thats the way i do it all the time. i start out with some basic idea and then just watch it evolve. i pick out the good parts and cut it into shape.

dont get me wrong the composer/sound-designer/writer has a huge part in making a tune, and surely the most important. but hes also very far form carrying the bulk share of work that made a tune possible.

Well, if you have a bunch of people using the same samples and they make no effort to do something original sounding with them or try to process them to sound different, you're going to have a bunch of tracks that are essentially the same. If you couldn't tell that different people made the tracks, then what point is there in having an artist name? Might as well just call yourself a demo'er for the sample pack you used, because the samples made the tune.

Ghost-deejay for burial.

I've ghost written some hip hop lyrics before (wouldn't sound right having a suburban whiteboy who can't spit doling out gangsta rap lyrics peppered with ****** and gats etc)
Been a ghost engineer for a few people before kind of like what Goldie did for Timeless with Rob Playford and co and Dom and Roland for Trace etc obviously uncredited.
I must say it pays well especially when the people have more money than sense. It's often guys who want a shortcut and have managers/huge marketing behind them and don't have the time or knowledge about production, basically selling an image.
It's worth looking into for paying the bills or some extra spending cash, if you have a unique enough sound your fans will pick up on it subconsciously even though you never have to mention it.

meh this all sounds like something id rather avoid.

Besides.. writing your own music from scratch is way more satisfactory. On top of that finding your own samples or making your own gives a tune originality. And using your own sounds from bottom up or mOdulating presets/evolving those to something new is way cooler cause those sounds are your own style. of course every once in a while you will stumble upon a preset that sounds nice As a whole and only requires minimal tweaking, very rarely none at all.

A new sound into the world can make an awesome tune.

Money is a necessary evil to living.

deadly habit wrote:Money is a necessary evil to living.

that it is.

I'd rather work part time at a job though.

Ficticious wrote:

deadly habit wrote:Money is a necessary evil to living.

that it is.

I'd rather work part time at a job though.

a month at a shit job or a day/couple hours etc ghostwriting for a months wage...

You must be quick as fuck deadly, are you using pre-designed drumkits and patches, how about mixdown process? Ive recently started doing beats to spec and if its redesigning someones sketch or working from a hook i can move quickly but from youtube examples it takes a while to nail the elements they are actually looking for across a heap of example tracks, got any tips?... Also on the offchance do you have any sample contracts i could crib from that would be awesome, ive sort of cobbled one together from contracts friends have used for selling beats and remix contracts and stuff but i dont personally know anyone else who does this kind of work.
Large ups
Random Person on The Internet

deadly habit wrote:

Ficticious wrote:

deadly habit wrote:Money is a necessary evil to living.

that it is.

I'd rather work part time at a job though.

a month at a shit job or a day/couple hours etc ghostwriting for a months wage...

A month at a shit job. My dignity is more important. Aside from that unless you dont care long as its heard and dont mind being behind someone elses image

deadly habit wrote:I've ghost written some hip hop lyrics before (wouldn't sound right having a suburban whiteboy who can't spit doling out gangsta rap lyrics peppered with ****** and gats etc)
Been a ghost engineer for a few people before kind of like what Goldie did for Timeless with Rob Playford and co and Dom and Roland for Trace etc obviously uncredited.
I must say it pays well especially when the people have more money than sense.

see i would definitely do either of those things, i don't think there's any shame in it, if there is shame it's the people using your skills rather than you. if you're the rapper that needs to buy your words you're wack not the man writing them.

the second however i think is intriguing, enabling someone to express their ideas is a cool thing. just because they don't know the technical ins and outs doesn't mean they don't have great ideas and being in a situation where you help someone express those ideas is uplifting IMO (whether it's a paid gig or not).

erratech wrote:You must be quick as fuck deadly, are you using pre-designed drumkits and patches, how about mixdown process? Ive recently started doing beats to spec and if its redesigning someones sketch or working from a hook i can move quickly but from youtube examples it takes a while to nail the elements they are actually looking for across a heap of example tracks, got any tips?... Also on the offchance do you have any sample contracts i could crib from that would be awesome, ive sort of cobbled one together from contracts friends have used for selling beats and remix contracts and stuff but i dont personally know anyone else who does this kind of work.
Large ups
Random Person on The Internet

"A couple of hours is a generality", especially when it's working on music (something I enjoy), and yes I do have some predesigned stuff set aside, mixdown process for most of the stuff tends to be the pop loudness war, so it's not exactly a precision process and can easily be set to a mixdown template with designated busses and typical effects and such already setup.
Usually they come up with the contract, or their "manager" (say hello to a relative the majority of the time for smaller hip hop guys) which is essentially a NDA for you. If you want to just look up a typical NDA agreement and go from there. Otherwise it's just a handshake behind the scenes kinda thing.

Ficticious wrote:

deadly habit wrote:

Ficticious wrote:

deadly habit wrote:Money is a necessary evil to living.

that it is.

I'd rather work part time at a job though.

a month at a shit job or a day/couple hours etc ghostwriting for a months wage...

A month at a shit job. My dignity is more important. Aside from that unless you dont care long as its heard and dont mind being behind someone elses image

See the thing is, as I take it you view this as some sort of artistic compromise or compromising my dignity, while it allows me more free time to work on my own activities instead of having to work that part time job. Hell I do contracted production tutorial videos for one site atm as well, anything that keeps me from working a soul crushing 9-5 is fine by me as long as I'm not renting out my body's orifices.

I totally don't mind being behind someone's image.
A.) I'm not an MC, nor a singer, but I can write.
B.) I'm getting paid to make styles of music which I never would otherwise, it comes in as a benefit to my own production as well as you do things out of the norm.
C.) I'm never going to market this shit myself, but if someone wants to more power to them, it's common place in music.
D.) It's great for when you're in a creative slump with your own material as it keeps your skills honed and developing.

A good chunk of music is sold on marketing an image rather than the music itself. If someone's gonna get paid to do some of the behind scene work why not?