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If you're not spending more than 10 hours on an 8-bar loop then you're doing it wrong.



Spend a lot of time on little details.

Start layering different sounds/notes together.

Automate a shit ton.

Work on sound design.


Listen to a lot of professional productions and train your ear to match that type of sound when you create your own music. So it doesn't sound all cheesy and shit.


EDIT: Just listened to your "KOTO" track. Add some toms in there, switch up synth sounds now and then or have them doing the "call and response" with each other.

SunkLo wrote:

claudedefaren wrote:mixing and arrangement shills greatly.

Beautiful Freudian slip

Like I said, "The Next Level" is very open to interpretation. Maybe for you to advance to the next level after your current one you need to stop imitation and forge your own path. How many next level producers copy the tracks of others?

I mean yeah sure if you've never produced anything, getting to "The Next Level" is just learning how to open your DAW and save a project. But I interpreted it as referring to going from an average producer to a great one with a unique signature and the ability to produce a diverse palette of music. You're not going to acquire those skills by simply reproducing the work of others.

It was a typo caused by my phone. Getting to the next level is not figuring out how to use your daw for him. he already knows that. I think the problem is in your interpretation. He didn't ask how to sound unique, and you're operating under the premise that if you make some tracks and match them to professional tunes for PRACTICE, for the sake of becoming a better producer, then you're never going to make a track that doesn't "sound like everybody else." Also, SO MANY "next level" producers copied Skrillex's bass sounds.

I never said he was learning to open his DAW, I was just pointing out that "next level" means different things to different people depending on context. I would argue that anyone copying Skrillex sounds doesn't count as a next level producer in my books. But for some, the mere ability to use an EQ or program 8 bars of drums is considered next level.

daeMTHAFKNkim wrote:If you're not spending more than 10 hours on an 8-bar loop then you're doing it wrong.



Spend a lot of time on little details.

Start layering different sounds/notes together.

Automate a shit ton.

Work on sound design.


Listen to a lot of professional productions and train your ear to match that type of sound when you create your own music. So it doesn't sound all cheesy and shit.


EDIT: Just listened to your "KOTO" track. Add some toms in there, switch up synth sounds now and then or have them doing the "call and response" with each other.

this.

SunkLo wrote:I never said he was learning to open his DAW, I was just pointing out that "next level" means different things to different people depending on context. I would argue that anyone copying Skrillex sounds doesn't count as a next level producer in my books. But for some, the mere ability to use an EQ or program 8 bars of drums is considered next level.

But that's your opinion, entirely. These producers you say are not next level are a lot more successful than either of us at present. Do we have reasonable to suspect that mtl6 doesn't know how to use an EQ, or how to program 8 bars of drums? Doesn't particularly matter anyway, because he said..

I'm sure many of us have put of lot of time and effort into this hobby. When I look back on the first tracks I ever made, I can see how far I've come as a producer. Yet, I'm still nowhere near the level I need to be at to satisfy my artistic urge. I can write a decent sounding tune every once in awhile but I am so far from being able to communicate my vision and to hone my unique style. I'm sure you all can sympathize.

He wants to be able to communicate his vision better, so aside from learning music theory, copying different song's arrangements will help him come to have a more intimate understanding of how to communicate emotion through music. In doing this he learns to add his own flavor and contribute something unique to many formats he's become familiar with. It's like learning anything.

That's what helped me come to understand my style better, at least. Give it a shot. If nothing else you'll get your mixes sounding better.

I think that SunkLo's idea of next level is like when you hear a producers tune and are like 'Wow that is mad, that is some next level shit, I aint heard anything like that before' not 'Wow that tunes is really good standard filthy brostep'

SO he is just kinda saying, to him, being next level is making some crazy ass new shit, so copying someone else is not going to be next level.

To be honest I am the same, a next level producer is someone who when I listen to their tunes its blows me away and I'm like how the hell did they even come up with that shit.

Obviously though, next level to OP could be an entirely different thing.

I honestly didn't even really know what I meant by "the next level." But I think you guys (claude, SunkLo, dae, etc.) are all hitting the major points. I think all of you bring up great points and if I can summarize the various opinions on the subject I would say: we would be smart to learn the "big picture" stuff from the producers we admire (in terms of arrangement, emotional development, etc.) yet at the same time we must pay great attention to the tiniest details of every bar that we write so that we can create a unique, personal sound. At least thats what I'm taking away from it. Thanks everyone for your insight

Producing is one of the couple ways of making music that you cannot half ass and get away with it. Obviously you "can" ofcourse. If you want to make tracks of the highest quality it takes a legit amount of attention to detail. Shits tedious but there's no way around it. I think producing is the most complex and challenging "instrument" or "musical medium" of them all. It requires a lot of musical knowledge or understanding because you have to do everything as a producer or composer. Way gnarlier than only worrying about only one roll

Add9 wrote:

Icetickle wrote:Try producing like almost drunk. Works for some people

Haha I make the illest beats while drunk... then I come back to them sober and I'm like wtf is this shit

lool every time man ]-:
baked
yaeaa dis beat is tiiiight yo
sober
oh jesus what fuck is this mess

to OP:
id just say learn all the music theory. analogue side of it too instead of just electronic stuff. everything else has been said already really.

also, some ppl are just destined never to be next level producers ;( gotta have that musical creativity. some people just dont have the groove
not personally saying u dont have it or anything, cos i wouldnt know in the slightest, just a general comment.


p.s ur koto song is ni ce

Add9 wrote:

Icetickle wrote:Try producing like almost drunk. Works for some people

Haha I make the illest beats while drunk... then I come back to them sober and I'm like wtf is this shit

My doctor gave me some benzo's for my insomnia, you wanna talk about a wtf was I thinking moment...

Really does depend on your definition of "next level".

If you're talking about the "find your own sound" problem, I'd say the best solution to that is to know what your niche is. That little quirk that defines you at what you are.

The pros don't know it all. They're not magical or blessed with talents beyond all our comprehension. A lot of them make as many so-so tunes as they do bangers. They don't know for definite what people will like, but they do know what their niche is and what's worked for them in the past, and they use that as an element in their production.

I totally disagree about the above "spend 10 hours on an 8 bar loop" theory. That might work if that's your thing, but sometimes simple is king. Take the new Versa EP for example, I was listening to it earlier and all I could think was how simple it was, literally bass, kick, snare and a few percussion elements. It wouldn't of taken weeks to create, yet people go mad for it.

Music theory is never a bad thing, and learning an instrument properly will help with inspiration or give new outlooks. But both of these alone will not take you next level. I think it's all about working like a slave and knowing what you're good at.

daeMTHAFKNkim wrote:If you're not spending more than 10 hours on an 8-bar loop then you're doing it wrong.

um... yeah you are doing something wrong. if it takes 10 hours for an 8 bar loop then you're either a) trying to force it way too much or b) being extremely wasteful with your time

ehbrums1 wrote:

daeMTHAFKNkim wrote:If you're not spending more than 10 hours on an 8-bar loop then you're doing it wrong.

um... yeah you are doing something wrong. if it takes 10 hours for an 8 bar loop then you're either a) trying to force it way too much or b) being extremely wasteful with your time

Yea, that sounds insane, unless you are making crazy breakcore shit with three different breaks all in different time signatures. Even then...

I mean, really, saying you have to spend a certain amount of time, long or short, on any element of a track, regardless of "importance", is kinda dumb IMO.

I bet Beethoven wrote The Ode to Joy in like fifteen mintues after smoking a phatty and shotgunning a couple beers.

How long do you think Pulse X took?

I think really just spend time in general, regardless of if you make a tune really fast or spend all day tweaking one bass sound. Just work at music. A lot. All the time.

The issue of reaching the next level is as far as I see a matter of working for long enough that your skill begins to catch up with your taste. The reason your music is disappointing is that you clearly know what is good music to you and have a well trained ear and the production is not meeting that yet. I think the cure for this is just to keep working until stuff starts sounding good and then what will happen is your ear for and knowledge of the music will start to work for you rather than shooting your music down.

wolf89 wrote:How long do you think Pulse X took?

I think really just spend time in general, regardless of if you make a tune really fast or spend all day tweaking one bass sound. Just work at music. A lot. All the time.

The issue of reaching the next level is as far as I see a matter of working for long enough that your skill begins to catch up with your taste. The reason your music is disappointing is that you clearly know what is good music to you and have a well trained ear and the production is not meeting that yet. I think the cure for this is just to keep working until stuff starts sounding good and then what will happen is your ear for and knowledge of the music will start to work for you rather than shooting your music down.

fragments wrote: I bet Beethoven wrote The Ode to Joy in like fifteen mintues after smoking a phatty and shotgunning a couple beers.

Yeah but at the time he wrote that he was already a beast at writing music... and he didn't have to worry about compressors, or sound design, or how much of that signal to send to the reverb lol. Beethoven had such incredible attention to detail that if he had had FL Studio, I bet he would have looped the shit out of that melody for 8 hours at least.

beethoven was a beast from the first note he put on paper. Some ppl just have it from the get go.

Time is the cool to your own sound.
Make a tune
throw it away
make another tune

Repeat that shit... See what happens!

And along the way you're doing this shit, you learn which techniques and which sound is yours! It's simple as that...
Oh yeah, one tip... Try everything!
Really. I remade beatles songs (and god I hate the beatles), country songs (and I hate country even more), house, techno, hiphop, synthesis, samples, BPM, simple arrangement, fucked up arrangement, 3/4, building a song from one sound, building a song from field recordings I made like 15 minutes before, hardware jams, stuff on the piano (and I don't even play the piano)!

And almost none of this tunes made it to my soundcloud or even stayed in my memory... It was just good fun and I found after 5 years the style I liked! And the way how i approach this style!

@OP
From your tunes it sounds like you're approaching music from a pretty limited perspective (both tunes in your sig sound pretty similar). I would advise forgeting about music for a bit and throwing yourself into sound design. Make really weird twisty alien shit that you couldn't ever figure out how to turn in to a track, and then do your best to turn them in to a track. Listen to really crazy stuff (Amon Tobin comes to mind) to inspire you.

In short, break down what you're actually doing when you go to make tunes. What patterns have you got into. Figure out what your system is, break it in to pieces and re-invent yourself musically. This isn't the same as starting from square one because the stuff you've already learned will drastically speed up your ability to experiment.

I think your feelings of hitting a wall are down to you becoming reliant on a somewhat repetitive/comfortable process. So step back and come at it all from a completely different angle. Spend a week mangling vocal samples in a granular engine. Automate things you never usually would, assess what you'd normally do at point 'x' in arrangement/sound design e.t.c. and do something completely different. Be experimental. Don't try and develop vertically, you'll benefit more from lateral growth.

Electric_Head wrote:beethoven was a beast from the first note he put on paper. Some ppl just have it from the get go.

On the history channel, some scientists were saying that musicians back then were saying that their melodies were not coming from them.