Dubstepforum.com

oh no it doesn't



Using 4 hero as an example (I've got Creating Patterns which diverted even further towards the avante garde). That wasn't a watering down of their music, it was a complete change of direction and a move towards the abstract. In fact it was a brave move, not a commercial one.

The problem is that you have little objective basis for saying whats brave and whats commercially motivated. And using bold text and the like definately implies that you think its a matter of correct and incorrect. As ive said, you can say "i like 4hero's creating patterns, but i dont like ebtg", i dont care, but as ive said, its trying to claim some 'truth' to the matter which irritates me. If you lay it out in a coherent argument then you've got more weight behind your opinion, and i wont be so irritated by it.

As ive said, if there is a fact (or persuasive argument) somewhere that tells me that the tune to which i referred to start all this was motivated by selling rather than creating, then ill take back almost everything ive said. But thus far all ive heard are assumptions and opinions

Maybe I'll give you a better (or more coherant) argument when I'm off my medication (otherwise I'd be at work and not on here!)

And shit man this is a forum - I'm not writing a gospel according to St.Kion lol its all 'in my opinion' I ain't denying that. Shouldn't need to clarify it really!

And I never said I liked creative patterns either, I said I had it. (the fact I think its ok on the whole, but not amazing is a different story).

I think you're confusing artists that are active or were originators within a musical movement (who are branching out and doing things differently - whether that be Roni Size, 4Hero, Photek, Decoder, Jonny L as we're mostly talking dnb here - even though some of these branching outs were to simply make money), and unrelated artists who just want a mix/remix in the style of the latest in vogue thing purely for commercial reasons, without any or little feeling for the musical style and movement as a whole. There's two sides to the coin, the producer who's in the game, and the artist who just wants a fad remix.

Producers like Jonny L used their expertise to produce pop, and so what, it didn't affect his dnb output - he never watered that down. He was using his skills on a different musical plain. When he did dnb again it was uncompromised, and that is what its about.

As I said, I'm drugged up to the hilt so I'll stop right there!

Fair play man, its just that a lot of ppl (i imagine me included!) do talk like they know whats what though, i think sometimes it is necessary to clarify stuff like that, or just add in those little clauses (like 'for me' etc). I think to some extent you just caught the tail end of me being pissed off reading people speak in imperatives and 'objectives' about music, so im sorry about that.

Thats a good point about coming out of or into the scene, i do have things to say about it but i dont think we should continue this anymore (at least not right now what with your drugs!).

Alex bk-bk wrote:i dont see the point in radio-friendly dubstep at all

y not all radio friendly music works wonders for the underground aswell

how? its soundsystem music isn't it? Every form of music needs its medium and dubstep's is soundsystems supported by an infrastructrure of pirate radio mix-format shows, 12s and occasional CDs. Isn't the whole thing about live PA vibes and bass weight?? I can't see how that would transfer over to the mainstream without losing the plot or how our scene would benifit from that

o as for the whole "in my humble opinion" addage thing, I'm with Kion on this, surely that goes without saying?? Otherwise we'd all have to prefix our posts with this statement. Waste of time, every expression about music is subjective

Alex bk-bk wrote:o as for the whole "in my humble opinion" addage thing, I'm with Kion on this, surely that goes without saying?? Otherwise we'd all have to prefix our posts with this statement. Waste of time, every expression about music is subjective

You think that every expression is subjective, but i dont think everyone would necessarily agree with you. And even if they do i think people forget it the whole time, and it affects the way they talk and discuss. And it doesnt have to be prefixes, its about tone and language used. You did it yourself just then by posing questions rather than making statements. You opened up discussion by making some points and asked the person to reassess their perspective, which for me is the way to go. It's certainly more likely to get ppl to listen to what you have to say with an open mind. I just reckon people generally use 'is' too much and throw about weight without explaining things properly. But if you disagree then what can i say?!

Alex bk-bk wrote:i dont see the point in radio-friendly dubstep at all

the thought of it is a joke.

but maybe the sound will cross in time ???????? Which doesnt bother me. Its when the producers start watering down their shit to suit mainstream consumers it becomes a sad story to tell.

ebtg is sick. ben watt tracy thorn. czech tracy thorn solo album. def in my top singer songwriter ever.

omen wrote:

Alex bk-bk wrote:i dont see the point in radio-friendly dubstep at all

y not all radio friendly music works wonders for the underground aswell

Yes but we dont need the fucking radio to succeed, to have a thriving scene. We can do it our selves, as the underground, I dont need no cock on radio to play this music, it is good enough to seep into scenes and ears all across the world and grow organically without the 'approval' of shallow, boring, unreprasentative pricks. This is OUR music.

Alex bk-bk wrote:i dont see the point in radio-friendly dubstep at all

but isnt that what garage is?

no.

firstly - what garage is there about at the moment?
secondly - ummmm not really its rave music isnt it. even 2step used to come pretty hard, and lets not forget speed garage.

sorry nothing to do with the radio, except pirates obviously but that's mix-format which is completely different context-wise.