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wolf89 wrote:

Agent doesn't know noise music though you're right. Or even get the point of it

cus its pretensions as fuck on a solo ting lol

only sounds good accompanied by a gabba kick, but then tbf it does become very good

No it's not. It's not remotely pretentious. You're just enjoying the sounds for what they are, something that is a massive part of enjoying electronic music anyway. The fact that it's harsh shouldn't make a difference. You listen to nasty sounding techno or people listen to very aggressive confrontational metal. Why not have beat-less music like ambient that expresses that same thing instead of the nice background vibe that ambient music has.

Also if this is brostep to you you must be fucking deaf

wolf89 wrote: You listen to nasty sounding techno or people listen to very aggressive confrontational metal.

they are also shit

and that is worse than brostep

See this is why I say you have really narrow taste and actively try and be ignorant.

because i don't like the music you do?

No because you write off massive areas of music as being shit just because you don't like them. You're going to say I'm being hypocritical because I don't like a lot of stuff but that's a matter of quality/taste within each area of music. I wouldn't go "all noise, harder techno and metal are shit" because I don't understand music with that purpose like you are doing. I pick out a track or artist or something I don't like but I listen to a broad spectrum of music and see the point of all styles/sounds/aesthetics/emotions within music and sound in general. You refuse to even make an effort to understand them. In fact you seem to have no ability to understand music beyond things that fit your desired lifestyle choice. Everything you listen to fits your narrow cultural stand point and that's it. Even with hip hop which you like as a genre you get stuck saying that everything that doesn't fit your white middle class viewpoint is shit without any possibility of you attempting to see the point of it.

wolf89 wrote:No it's not. It's not remotely pretentious. You're just enjoying the sounds for what they are, something that is a massive part of enjoying electronic music anyway. The fact that it's harsh shouldn't make a difference. You listen to nasty sounding techno or people listen to very aggressive confrontational metal. Why not have beat-less music like ambient that expresses that same thing instead of the nice background vibe that ambient music has.

Also if this is brostep to you you must be fucking deaf

see, i actually get the attraction of it - it is kinda cool sonically

but it's just so pretentious i cant take myself serious when i put it on

if you cant see that, then unfortunately u are slipping into that category too

How is that pretentious? You just put it on and enjoy listening to it. You're getting hung up on your associations with the music not the music itself. There's nothing pretentious about that album. You just listen to it like any other music and enjoy what you hear and have and emotional response to it.

It's not remotely pretentious.

It's the very definition of remote pretention, as the principle comes to life by removing itself from the very definition that gives it the most genuine meaning, > a musical sequence of sound. That doesn't mean something carrying less meaning isn't warranted but that it might depend more on the listeners imagination.

You're just enjoying the sounds for what they are, something that is a massive part of enjoying electronic music anyway.

Rythm is kind of similar to narrative in a story, in the sence that experiencing noise is like reading a text of words where you are meant to enjoy them individually and not relate a direct meaning to them. That practise is highly pretentious. This is the same. But expecting something from a listener is great.

The fact that it's harsh shouldn't make a difference.

No doubt.

wolf89 wrote:No because you write off massive areas of music as being shit just because you don't like them. You're going to say I'm being hypocritical because I don't like a lot of stuff but that's a matter of quality/taste within each area of music. I wouldn't go "all noise, harder techno and metal are shit" because I don't understand music with that purpose like you are doing. I pick out a track or artist or something I don't like but I listen to a broad spectrum of music and see the point of all styles/sounds/aesthetics/emotions within music and sound in general. You refuse to even make an effort to understand them. In fact you seem to have no ability to understand music beyond things that fit your desired lifestyle choice. Everything you listen to fits your narrow cultural stand point and that's it. Even with hip hop which you like as a genre you get stuck saying that everything that doesn't fit your white middle class viewpoint is shit without any possibility of you attempting to see the point of it.

ok

hmm dunno, just got an air of smugness to it

your not gonna convince me otherwise

each to their own though, i just cant take it that seriously

also, i got no problem with ppl who like it

but for reals, its the definition of pretentious like hubb said

if thats not, then what is in your opinion wolf?

No rhythm isn't the same to narrative in writing at all. That comparison doesn't fit at all. Rhythm is timing of sound but doesn't express anything without compositional structure. The "reading a text of words where you are meant to enjoy them individually and not relate a direct meaning to them" implies that noise music is completely without structure which isn't remotely the case. So a narrative in music in is more it's structure. Also when writing there is a degree of sense that has to be made to express something. With music it can on the surface appear to be meaningless but still give great pleasure and evoke specific emotions or thoughts within the listener. Consider how much techno music is on the surface not about anything or lacking in conventional compositional methods to express emotions but still does. Noise is exactly the same. It's just focusing on sound to evoke a response more than other types of music where rhtyhm and melody take more of a focal point.What I mean really a huge amount of music is non narrative anyway why decide that noise is therefore the thing to be compared to reading words without a specific context?

Besides rhythm without noise is nothing. It's simply the temporal placement of sounds. The sound itself is what is being used to express it. Without the dynamics or textures of the sound the rhythm would be negligible anyway. So if anything noise and silence are essential to creating even conventional music. Not to mention that even in noise music there is a degree of pattern or development to the sound that could be considered rhythm anyway.

I'd be more inclined to compare noise to abstract art or photography where the subject has no specific context or meaning but is still something that the person viewing it could think about and react to emotionally.However that still is something more static in time than the development of a piece of noise music But still my point was music isn't comparable to other art forms in it's ability to work perfectly whilst being meaningless.

"There are two things in life that don't have to mean anything: one is music, and the other is laughter"

also implies that noise music is completely without structure which isn't remotely the case.

No in my example it implies that words without context have a meaning to them, by just being building blocks and by appearing in even a random sequence. The same could be said for sounds having an inherent musical meaning to them, despite the context or structure as you say.

Thats what I meant.

Besides rhythm without noise is nothing. It's simply a temporal placement of sounds. The sound itself is what is being used to express it. Without the dynamics or textures of the sound the rhythm would be negligible anyway. So if anything noise and silence are essential to creating even conventional music. Not to mention that even in noise music their is a degree of pattern or development to the sound that could be considered rhythm anyway.

I see that as inherently musical tbh.

I'd be more inclined to compare noise to abstract art or photography where the subject has no specific context or meaning but is still something that the person viewing it could think about and react to emotionally.

I just feel the aesthetic from say Merzbow is close to being a progression that we've heard in actual genres. I would say music concrete lives up to some of the weight you put on noise, but to me noise is a more defined scene.

but that's the thing. Music often has no meaning or narrative but still can express emotions and thoughts. Experiencing words with a lack of a narrative or without context will trigger associations but won't express anything that specific or deep where as you can still express emotions to the point of constructing a clear narrative style structure with noise music.

Yeah I dont disagree with that either, I would say those words' potential associations, accumulated, could bring as clean a narrative as what you are saying noise could. It's cool.

I fucking hate stuff like that though. Basicly a bag of words and then the tnuc of an author will have me glue them together.

I work in publishing and authors are all stnuc.

I can see that a little but really I still see noise music as being something with more to it than accumulation of noises into something that makes sense. Your idea of words arranged outside of a conventional narrative structure in a way that the associations build to create a response in the reader would be more like the arrangement of recognizable sounds until they made a composed piece of music. For example hearing an extractor fan, a fridge, a ketttle etc. placed one after the other before switching to other sounds with some degree of purpose to it. It's more comparable to a piece Musique concrète that was composed with the intention that the associations with the sounds are meant to be focused on

Also "just got an air of smugness to it"

At what point during that Kevin Drumm track did anything express smugness? Or as I said are you simply projecting that onto the music because of your own view of music Agent? Especially as you already obsess over image in music with your hatred of anything "five panel" or your love of the image associated with Nina Kraviz's music?

its just like ooo look at me i dont need rhythm and melodies, the fundamentals of what us humans like in moosiks


what do you consider pretentious within music, i really wanna know lol ??

i'm sure there is some noise music i would like but tbh i really don't see the appeal it's just noise lol

and as if there are producers of it like it involves skill lol