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manray wrote:Renoise is fucked. I know someon who knows it inside and out but plop him on Cubase and he's lost as fuck. I rather invest my time in Cubase/Logic because you know that they are the standard for all sequencers. You know you wont have any problems if you learn them.

And that makes it "fucked" does it. Sounds more like your mate is a mong.

Using Cubase for programmed music is like using a kettle to knock in a nail. It can be done, but it is not ideal.

It makes sense to use the program you're most comfortable with, whether or not it's "the standard".

IMO.

If you're making music for yourself, use whatever.

If you want to eventually get a job in a studio, it's good to learn to use the standards.

But, who cares? Octamed Rules.

wtf octamed looks like space invaders (big up the ableton massive) even though i dont like it used 4 live performance

two oh one wrote:If you're making music for yourself, use whatever.

If you want to eventually get a job in a studio, it's good to learn to use the standards.

But, who cares? Octamed Rules.

you. are a dork.

octamad pwns you.

CalculatorStep Yeah?

gray47 wrote:i was using Audiomulch for awhile but the developer seems adamant about not implementing a sequencer for VSTi... this sucks a bit as you might imagine.

it's a good tool but in some ways, the lack of a VSTi sequencer, it is a bit like reinventing the wheel.

i've used Fruity in the past and found it OK but it was a ware and i felt a bit bad about that... so i moved on to AM which is cool, especially the modular routing aspect...

i tried Renoise and found the idea intriguing but couldn't wrap my head around the interface...

Reason looks good too but it seems they don't allow outside VST & VSTi that sucks a bit... this might lend more focus though to learning the interface and all the knobs and shit really emulate an actual studio...

i've got some hardware too but it's pretty outdated and again... like reinventing the wheel a lot of the time

so, yeah, brag up your sequencer if you will

If you like Audiomulch but want to be able to sequence VSTs normally, you could try getting a host (or some kind of mini-sequencer) that loads as a VST, so you can load the host in Audiomulch, the sequencer in the host (and have the whole combination saved as a preset so you don't have to faff around doing it), sequence normally in the host and use its output as if it were a synth in AM. EnergyXT, FL (iirc), Plogue Bidule, probably some others...

Alternatively, EnergyXT might do it for you itself - it's fairly cheap and has nice modular stuff and some tasty features (eg the drum sequencer), although Version 2 (the current version) still has a few rough edges.

@ Octamed, btw.

The only limit of all these programs is you.
As a tracker freak, Renoise is the shit for me but I certainly understand that people can get confused by the interface.
Just as LBP said, stick to what you're comfortable with.

two oh one man are you serious about Octamed? I'm sure it can be achieved but the why is beyond me...

manray wrote:CalculatorStep Yeah?

Ha, it actually makes much more sense to use a tracker for programming music. Horizontal sequencers are designed for recording bands. Like I said, you can of course make programmed music in a horizontal sequencer, but it is a waste of time.

I'm sure it makes sense to you but I certainly don't think it makes MORE sense in general over 'normal' sequencers. I don't think it's a coincidence that the most popular sequencers for production are horizontal and dont in anyway resemble trackers.

Stick to what you know though and everyone is different.

vadarfone wrote:

manray wrote:CalculatorStep Yeah?

Ha, it actually makes much more sense to use a tracker for programming music. Horizontal sequencers are designed for recording bands. Like I said, you can of course make programmed music in a horizontal sequencer, but it is a waste of time.

Mate, I also feel more comfortable with the tracker view but it's a bit narrow-minded to say everybody should feel the same.

all "normal" sequencers and trackers have their individual merits and bad points. a well made tune is a well made tune regardless what your using..

I bet you that horizontal sequencers are more popular because music notation reads horizontally. I'm no expert on the psychology of graphic interfaces or anything, just a hunch.

Every tool has its pros and cons, not just in music making. If you're in the tracker bizniz and own a pc, give a try to Buzz http://www.buzzmachines.com , especially if your machine is not the latest stuff in the market. To say it with a few words, Buzz can be a great VSTi/VST host and it also has got an impressive load of other gear which comes for free at the site in its own format. Fundamentally Buzz is a tracker, but its engine is modular and has been hacked and extended to an extreme extent thru the "peer" controllers. If you know some Python, you can hack the engine and the machines you use thru it even! Buzz developing (the program itself, not the machines) has been stopped 6 years ago, the machines have to be manually placed into directories and getting a clean installation can be seriously harmful to the brain! I had switched to macs, so no Buzz on there, but I've been still using it when I've got to use synths like FSM Infector, Arguru Guru4, LD Jacynth and then some. I've mentioned these since lots of buzz machines can be loaded in Fruity Loops.

Or you could just use Renoise which is still supported.

vadarfone wrote:

manray wrote:CalculatorStep Yeah?

you can of course make programmed music in a horizontal sequencer, but it is a waste of time.

i bet you ANY amount of £££ that there is more released music from horizontal scrolling sequencers than trackers.

waste of time? no, you wasted your time with that post because its clearly bollocks mate. not bollocks in the same league as my post is going to be, but its still wrong imo. i dont see how any method of making music can be a waste of time.

making music is never a waste of time unless it is a life or death situation and you really should be using the fire extinguisher to save your wife and children from the burning house that you are sitting in making music on your horizontal scrolling sequencer which was sent from the depths of hell, hence the way your house is burning, because you are using satan's very own music sequencer while knowing full well that on the 7th day god didn't rest, he created trackers to counteract the evil that satan's horizontally scrolling music sequencers were inflicting.

i use audacity, fl 7 and reaper, in that order.

Reaktor in standalone mode

takes time to get your head round but well well worth it!

I work on Reason V4 and Propellerheads have upgraded the sequencer to work like it never has before.

It's so much more defined and you have so much more control over the parameters. I won't go back to a full hardware studio, but i do use it in conjunction with the software.

The new sequencer is equal to Cubase and from what I've seen of Logic:



One benefit of Reason is learning about the patching and wiring. I know this puts people off but i find it gives you much more interactivity than just pulling a module up and loading a patch. Having worked in hardware studios a lot I think this is a great touch that Propellerheads have used for a while now.

I know the vast majority go for Cubase on PC Logic on Mac, but with Reason V4 I think personally it gives them a good run for their money. I know there's all the debate about a lack of midi options, etc, but this in no way has put me off.

New track 'DARK PIPE' @

http://www.myspace.com/psyphonmusic

reason 4 looks nice. i might take the time to evaluate it because i've always hated the old sequencer.

can it handle vsts yet?