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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:47 pm
by the wiggle baron
sapphic_beats wrote:relaks wrote:boomnoise wrote:a more interesting question for me these days is whether or not it matters that people don't necessarily get it.
truth.
also, if I care. I do enjoy how the dubplate thing seems to infuriate people though. Big up the frustrated djs.
dubplate haiku:
technology wins.
my files are lighter than plates.
soundwaves are soundwaves.
*edit* this is silly uncaffeinated sarcasm, but let the flames begin...
VYNAL BETTER PRK
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:49 pm
by ory
Pangaea wrote:sully_shanks wrote:dubs give DJs identity n sense of individuality to their performance. and also push people to dig out their own hidden gems n signiture tunes, or better yet push ppl to make their own
i remember that it felt a bit weird to own 'learn' when it was released, just because i'd always associated it with mala playing out!
there are many reasons why a producer may not want a track of theirs released
Yeah but everything comes to an end, right? Learn got released, but now Mala's playing other unreleased tracks of his that nobody else has.
Releasing a 12" is the perfect closure. And no I'm not saying *all* tracks should be released, but there needs to be something for people to get their hands on or they'll eventually get peeved.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:56 pm
by [b]racket
UFO over easy wrote:
my mam always used to say "I WANT DOESN'T GET"
hahaha mine too.
out to the mums!
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:20 pm
by harkaransg
MacPhellimey wrote:furthermore, why, just because people want something, should they necessarily get it? in the exact form that they want it. to impose such an idea on an artist is what i would say is absurd, as if they have a duty to everyone to mass produce their music... surely they should have the creative choice as to how their art is experienced?
sully_shanks wrote:dubs give DJs identity n sense of individuality to their performance. and also push people to dig out their own hidden gems n signiture tunes, or better yet push ppl to make their own. no need for every sick track to get full presses...
the whole throwaway, transient nature of dubs isnt so positive tho. real tunes have a sense of timelessness n a scene built on tracks with a 1 month lifespan aint too healthy imo.
good points
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:34 pm
by pangaea
Ory wrote:Pangaea wrote:sully_shanks wrote:dubs give DJs identity n sense of individuality to their performance. and also push people to dig out their own hidden gems n signiture tunes, or better yet push ppl to make their own
i remember that it felt a bit weird to own 'learn' when it was released, just because i'd always associated it with mala playing out!
there are many reasons why a producer may not want a track of theirs released
Yeah but everything comes to an end, right? Learn got released, but now Mala's playing other unreleased tracks of his that nobody else has.
Releasing a 12" is the perfect closure. And no I'm not saying *all* tracks should be released, but there needs to be something for people to get their hands on or they'll eventually get peeved.
there are plenty of killer tracks from the dmz camp (for example) that haven't been released and for all i know, may never see wax at all. there'll always be a reason behind that decision though, and it should be respected - if someone chooses to get peeved about a track not being available to buy or play themselves then that's their problem
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:34 pm
by fractal
i feel like holding dubplates from geeting released helps pevent the homoginization of the sound... if everyone had every track the tracklists would get pretty standard. its all about building you own sound, through established producers and local talent you as a dj help support... watch eyes down, pokes sums it up pretty well
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:35 pm
by schamotnik
I mainly want to own some tracks in order to be able to play them out and let other people enjoy them.. it's not really the same when you have radio snippets or memories in your head.. 'heard this amazing tune yesterday.. want me to try and recreate it with my mouth?'
still I can understand some tunes are made for special occasions, or some artists want to keep them for themselves so that they stay unique..
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:38 pm
by bob crunkhouse
MacPhellimey wrote:That said, keeping a good tune strictly on dubplate for the sake of dubplate culture is sanctimonious, elitist and absurd.
Spot on.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:36 pm
by seckle
take the concept out of music for a second, and things are very clear.
let's say you're banksy, and over the years you've very carefully been building your name and reputation up in the underground. long days of no results and at times a very difficult grind. then all of a sudden a spark happens. things start to snowball immediately. suddenly; you get to show your work at various galleries, as well as sell your work at those galleries. a few years on the demand and notoriety explodes exponentially. there's now more demand than even your best output could deliver. every piece that's finished sells immediately. the press loves you, and there's a heavy underground following worldwide. the pace has become so crazy that there's a growing feeling to hold back some of your work; maybe show some of it to a few friends and live with it for a while. see if it speaks to you a few months later in the same way it did on the day it was finished. see if it's still valid to your initial vision; a few month's down the road.
there's been tunes in this scene that've taken 4 to even 6 years to see release. that's not labels and producers sitting in their studios dreaming up ways to be elitist. that's just the journey that those tunes needed to take. creating art, much like creating music is a process. it's a journey from point a to b. that journey could take 24 hours or 24 months. it's not something that should be rushed. it's not a cookie factory. you don't just throw dough in the oven and hope that some cookies come out. i remember a time back in 2003-2004 when there could be one or two vinyl releases a month, and all of us were losing our minds over that. two new tunes on vinyl!!!
now we have about 12 new tunes a month, on every format available to humanity and people are calling that elitist? lol. i think far too many people these days are worried that dubstep is going to end or something. like it's slipping away and everyones running after it like crazy to get in before some big door shuts....totally ridiculous.
stevie wonder said it best :
"Never base your musical output on other peoples expectations."
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:45 pm
by harkaransg
seckle wrote: there's been tunes in this scene that've taken 4 to even 6 years to see release. that's not labels and producers sitting in their studios dreaming up ways to be elitist. that's just the journey that those tunes needed to take. creating art, much like creating music is a process. it's a journey from point a to b. that journey could take 24 hours or 24 months. it's not something that should be rushed. it's not a cookie factory. you don't just throw dough in the oven and hope that some cookies come out. i remember a time back in 2003-2004 when there could be one or two vinyl releases a month, and all of us were losing our minds over that. two new tunes on vinyl!!!
now we have about 12 new tunes a month, on every format available to humanity and people are calling that elitist? lol. i think far too many people these days are worried that dubstep is going to end or something. like it's slipping away and everyones running after it like crazy to get in before some big door shuts....totally ridiculous.
stevie wonder said it best :
"Never base your musical output on other peoples expectations."
Well said, particularly the part about people worrying that dubstep will end. The hearts still beating strong. Growing wiser with new additions and moving forward.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:39 pm
by alien pimp
fear kills
fear is a negative translation of the wish for the opposite to happen
so simply go for what's needed for what you want to happen, instead of acting negative towards what you don't want to happen
life's so simple...
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:40 pm
by slothrop
Ory wrote:Yeah but everything comes to an end, right? Learn got released, but now Mala's playing other unreleased tracks of his that nobody else has.
Releasing a 12" is the perfect closure. And no I'm not saying *all* tracks should be released, but there needs to be something for people to get their hands on or they'll eventually get peeved.
I dunno, maybe it's just that I couldn't afford to buy every tune I like anyway, but I like the way dubplate culture forces me out of the record nerd attitude that I must own every great tune ever made. I like the idea that I'm in a club hearing a tune that I may never be able to own - I may never even find out who made it or what it's called - but I don't care because it's killing it in that moment and that's all that matters.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:58 pm
by chef
It's not hard to undrestand, it's just the way music is tested and promoted in an indie scene like Dubstep.
It's the same wether the format is dubplate, cdr, ableton or serato.
This is how it works,
I get a cd or folder full of tunes, I listen to the cd and choose if I like any or none.
If I like a tune I may cut it and play it.
After a while, maybe a few months of playing out radio etc the producer see there'a demand for a particular track.
If the demand is strong enough the Producer goes about looking to getting it signed or released on their own label etc.
From that moment to the time the tune comes out on vinyl it can be another few months due to schedules, backlog and murphys law.
Not every track by a producer can get a release, sometimes the producer just might not want a track to come out because they think there's stronger tracks that need to come out before that particular one.
I've never heard of a good tune being kept strictly on dubplate for the sake of dubplate culture, no producer is gonna hold back a work of art just for dubplate politics. If a tune is good then they would want it out there, getting the love it deserves.
What's funny though is that if a producer released every single track they would be labelled as a money grabbing, diluting the sound and slated for all there tracks sound samey etc etc.
I dont think the problem is tracks take to long to come out, rather that if your a serious dubstepper that goes to alot raves and listens to radioshows your gonna hear the tracks mega early.
I cut and play alot of music within a few days of it being made, whereas years ago a track would be made, put in the conveyor belt and kept silent for a few months. @ Ringo we have done this a few times to stop a track getting over exposed too early.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:04 pm
by alien pimp
i love it when reason shows why there's no need to invent fake religions
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:07 pm
by harkaransg
Chef wrote:
What's funny though is that if a producer released every single track they would be labelled as a money grabbing, diluting the sound and slated for all there tracks sound samey etc etc.
I dont think the problem is tracks take to long to come out, rather that if your a serious dubstepper that goes to alot raves and listens to radioshows your gonna hear the tracks mega early.
I cut and play alot of music within a few days of it being made, whereas years ago a track would be made, put in the conveyor belt and kept silent for a few months. @ Ringo we have done this a few times to stop a track getting over exposed too early.
Nice one, good points here.
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:24 am
by dushume
Chef makes perfect sense and sums up the question on dubplate culture imo.
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:35 am
by the wiggle baron
He certainly does, standard!
Just not sure I agree 100% with this bit tho: "I've never heard of a good tune being kept strictly on dubplate for the sake of dubplate culture". Skream - Lemon is a wicked example, people were crying for this to be on skreamizm 4, and now theres disfigured dubs in the fray too, i expected it to be out by now! Although the chances are I am just showing a hideous misunderstanding of the process of tune being made -> wax.
Are VIP mixes a different kettle of fish all together? Cos God knows 10 dread commandments VIP is one of the biggest things to ever grace this fine genre! Does VIP mix = "sanctimonious, elitist and absurd"?
...I ask this, as to be honest I cant get my head around that sentence to begin with.
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:38 am
by benjybars
dubplate culture is easy to understand... it's dubplate drama you need to be worrying about -
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:18 am
by dushume
benjybars wrote:dubplate culture is easy to understand... it's dubplate drama you need to be worrying about -
^ Lmao
init
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:25 am
by alien pimp
Dushume wrote:benjybars wrote:dubplate culture is easy to understand... it's dubplate drama you need to be worrying about -
^ Lmao
init