Page 2 of 2
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:33 pm
by psychonaught
JBlake wrote:I would say that the "predictability" in dubstep/metal/hardcore metal/name your "dark" genre, is the tendency for most tunes to involve, at some point, a semitone hook (the main culprit of such cliche's).
For example, say you're in C, the bassline, lead, strings, guitar, piano, whatever, could go: C, C sharp, C sharp, C.... rinse and repeat.
This makes things sound dark, without necessarily being "minor", although suggesting it. So basically this function has become so cliché that certain tunes might make you think you know the bassline even when they "don't". Many different tunes are just versions of the semitone riff done in different ways, different drums, different rythms, different sounds, whatever, it boils down to the same thing. Now, when you're in a club and you hear that kinda stuff its easy to just go "yeahhhhhhhhh tunnnneeee", and believe me I do and have done. It just depends whether you're the sort of person who believes that real musicality in dubstep doesnt mean things can't sound good or accessible, or whether you think they are mutually exclusive. The problem might arise where things get too clever for their own good and nobody is going to want to put on your record. I tend to try not to worry too much about stuff like this because those "Red Eye" type semitone basslines are one of the reasons I got into dubstep.
Considering the Bach's and the Beethoven's, the Debussy's and the Tatum's have gone to places people might never go quite as well, I sometimes just think, fuck it, write something that sounds good, whatever it is.
Still, I do find it refreshing when an artist includes a chord or progression I havent heard before in this context.
Probably loads of contradictions there, but hey, it's late and I'm not totally sure what I think.
wey aye
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:19 pm
by spanmalaise
Battlegong and elBe thanks for explaining much more concisely than I could
anyway dubstep with some twisted korean time signatures could be awesome...
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:09 pm
by hugh
no one would want to mix it though.
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:22 pm
by nekkroteukh
I want to point out that in electronic music, it is not only the melodies that create the atmosphere and the song, but it is in much higher proportion the sounds that are used. And that's what I like about electronic music in contrast to rock, classical, etc. where the soundscape is limited to the same instruments producing the same sounds. A rock band typically has 4 different instruments to work with: a guitar, a bass, drums and vocals. 4 freaking sounds. With a synthesizer, a sampler and laptop we have an unlimited amount of different sounds to explore, sounds we haven't heard before, and that we don't relate to in the same way we relate to the sound of a guitar for example.
I'm sure you're all aware of this, I just wanted to point it out
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 pm
by xthewiddler
just play one note and tweak it till your tweaking
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:11 pm
by electromghxcstep
I think a lot of you are limiting what theory is. Just cos youre writing music based on theory doesn't mean that you have to write notes only within a certain key, and theory includes a lot more than the western major and minor scales. The thing is, if you do write a good bassline without theory, its preetty unlikely that you've invented some new type of scale or whatever, and writing it if you understood what you wrote and writing the rest of a song around it is going to be a lot easier.
i think thats relevant..
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:04 pm
by drifterman_
i cant play a single song on the piano
i dont even really know what "C" means except that its in the centre of my keyboard
i just sit for an hour or so playing small melodies then moving notes around in the piano roll until everything sounds exactly how I want it..
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:55 am
by r
funny to see people talking about things they dont really know.
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:33 am
by MountDoom
whatever happened to just exploring?
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:22 am
by slothrop
electromghxcstep wrote:I think a lot of you are limiting what theory is. Just cos youre writing music based on theory doesn't mean that you have to write notes only within a certain key, and theory includes a lot more than the western major and minor scales. The thing is, if you do write a good bassline without theory, its preetty unlikely that you've invented some new type of scale or whatever, and writing it if you understood what you wrote and writing the rest of a song around it is going to be a lot easier.
i think thats relevant..
Yeah, the basic point of theory is to explain how something works once you've seen that it does work, not to tell people what will work, if you see what I mean.
For instance, a lot of people say that the 'rules' of writing harmony say that you musn't use parallel fifths, ie if you've got two parts (say two vocals or trumpet and saxophone or violin and viola or whatever) and they start on two notes that are a fifth apart, you musn't have them move to two more notes that are also a fifth apart (eg if one moves from D to C and the other starts on A then it musn't move to G), and this is because parallel fifths are Bad.
But AIUI, that bit of theory would be better expressed as "one of the reasons that Bach and Palestrina's melody lines continues to feel like independently moving melodies was because except under certain circumstances they didn't use parallel fifths, and if you want your melody lines to feel like they're moving independently then it's probably best if you avoid parallel fifths too unless you've come up with a better idea."
Theory is a toolbox that can stop you reinventing the wheel unless you want to and give you a load of useful stuff to work with, if you find something that works that isn't described by theory then either there is some theory to describe it that you don't know yet or you should go ahead and do it anyway and let people think about why it works later.
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:24 pm
by elbe
R wrote:funny to see people talking about things they dont really know.
like who?
what do you expect to ofind in an online production thread? the idea is to share what you know, learn what you don't.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:52 am
by matthew_
I'd say if anything it's going to be the type of samples and synths used that are making it predictable, not the chord progression. I dont have any idea about theory, other than knowing about keys and what not, but basically if it doesnt sound like poop then it's all good with me.
Dubstep does tend to use a lot of minor keys and diminished chords and whatnot, but rock music uses a lot of powerchords, but not all the songs sound the same do they.
what do you expect to ofind in an online production thread? the idea is to share what you know, learn what you don't.
Well said.