Dubstepforum.com

Where as i appreciate good graf, i don't feel it shares an aesthetic with dubstep. The two, for me, are very incongruous.

Check www.myspace.com/pheks1

Also check
www.third-decade.co.uk

Some more checking
www.schudio.co.uk

boomnoise wrote:Where as i appreciate good graf, i don't feel it shares an aesthetic with dubstep. The two, for me, are very incongruous.

true dat - graff's always been a hiphop / breakbeat / breakdancing thing...

dubstep is more a reggae thing nowadays it seems...

Spaceboy wrote:

boomnoise wrote:Where as i appreciate good graf, i don't feel it shares an aesthetic with dubstep. The two, for me, are very incongruous.

true dat - graff's always been a hiphop / breakbeat / breakdancing thing...

dubstep is more a reggae thing nowadays it seems...

I disagree.

Graffiti and Hip-hop have nearly nothing to do with each other since like 1991, with the exception of the 4 elements philosophy kept alive in europe. Whatever, you ask most writers, they could care less about 4 elements.

as to whether or not the 2 genres are incongruous, I've noticed countless references to grafffiti on the forum. So they do have a crossover area.

btw, about toronto, I had a friend who used to write SPYDR in toronto. He quit a while back, but he's a great guy, and had great characters. I should try to get him over to one of your nights.

relaks wrote:

Spaceboy wrote:

boomnoise wrote:Where as i appreciate good graf, i don't feel it shares an aesthetic with dubstep. The two, for me, are very incongruous.

true dat - graff's always been a hiphop / breakbeat / breakdancing thing...

dubstep is more a reggae thing nowadays it seems...

I disagree.

Graffiti and Hip-hop have nearly nothing to do with each other since like 1991, with the exception of the 4 elements philosophy kept alive in europe. Whatever, you ask most writers, they could care less about 4 elements.

i'm not denying the evolution of graf into something else which is removed from it's burner/tagging roots and hip hop connections. what i am saying, in terms of how i view graf; as an artform, as an aesthetic and as an idea, is that i don't see it sitting well with my conception of dubstep and the images it conjures.

conversely, in semiotic terms, most graffiti is very hard to searate from it's roots. trying to leave aside value judgement, the work upthread is archetypal of the iconic graf which came out of hiphop. for me it's proper wildstyle.

i think dubstep's obsession with futurism translates to it's imagery. think tempa and road sleeves, dmz and fwd flyers - all bold colours and crisp lines. i think they've got it spot on. for me most graffi is stuck within some nasty 80s paradigm.

relaks - i'm interesting in your thoughts about why dubstep and grime work together, if that's your position.

This an "old school" throw-up style on a Danish "S-train" (the Copenhagen train net). It was made as promotion for our Roll Deep night in February 2006 in Copenhagen.

Flyers, posters, pieces...

same train...

cure wrote:goes hand in hand...dubstep to me is like hiphop 9000. Futuristic BBoys n shit.

true this. i've always felt that brand new,early hip hop feeling, from dubstep.

The Undisputed Stylemaster Phase 2 wrote:"The overstanding that this is our culture and that we shouldn't let others control how it's perceived and conceived, ... this infantile media concocted label, like that word that they slapped on this culture. ... It was never that. We didn't call it that. We called it writing. Nothing anyone does or says is going to change that. ... The truth, from the simplest sentence, which goes back to us, having already appropriated it as writing, which entails so much more that to a degree its indefinable."

Thats fr starters . . . . 2nd the connection between writing and 'ip-'op was generally a geographical one (and overplayed by the media), i.e 1st gen hiphoppers n writers came from the same areas, yes der was bare x-over, many writers attended hiphop jams etc, but many 1st generation writers had nowt t do with hiphop, straight rock heads.

Origanlly writing was pure futurism, almost a direct decendant of the orig. italian movement (minus the politricks) it placed all its emphasis on moving style fwd, these days "graff" has been reduced to a seris of "fonts" repeated ad-infinitum across the globe, as is usually the case when outsiders use third hand sources to mimik folk culture.

You got some nice letters relaks but the problem with "graff" is you cant tell by looking at it where it comes from, it does not reflect locality at all.

Big Up the Sao Paulo man dem still . . . pushing tings foooooorrrrward!!! with der 21stC style.

Im off t work now, sorry bout dat

doomstep wrote:

The Undisputed Stylemaster Phase 2 wrote:"The overstanding that this is our culture and that we shouldn't let others control how it's perceived and conceived, ... this infantile media concocted label, like that word that they slapped on this culture. ... It was never that. We didn't call it that. We called it writing. Nothing anyone does or says is going to change that. ... The truth, from the simplest sentence, which goes back to us, having already appropriated it as writing, which entails so much more that to a degree its indefinable."

Thats fr starters . . . . 2nd the connection between writing and 'ip-'op was generally a geographical one (and overplayed by the media), i.e 1st gen hiphoppers n writers came from the same areas, yes der was bare x-over, many writers attended hiphop jams etc, but many 1st generation writers had nowt t do with hiphop, straight rock heads.

Origanlly writing was pure futurism, almost a direct decendant of the orig. italian movement (minus the politricks) it placed all its emphasis on moving style fwd, these days "graff" has been reduced to a seris of "fonts" repeated ad-infinitum across the globe, as is usually the case when outsiders use third hand sources to mimik folk culture.

You got some nice letters relaks but the problem with "graff" is you cant tell by looking at it where it comes from, it does not reflect locality at all.

Big Up the Sao Paulo man dem still . . . pushing tings foooooorrrrward!!! with der 21stC style.

Im off t work now, sorry bout dat

Nice post man!

Rammellzee anyone?

My favorite artist is Saber of AWR and MSK out of L.A. I believe. Check out his website. He's got a lot of stuff up in San Francisco, and has done a bunch of sleeve art for the Violence and Vortex drum and bass labels.

www.saberone.com

deep in his gallery there's a memorial roller piece for TIE on the side of an oil tanker! It's huge!

On a tangent here- check the liner notes on Tempa 010
it has a big shout out to graf artists everywhere.


I started writing in 1984 did my last writing and postering in the 90's.
I got busted a few times and figured I could do something less harmful to my freedom with my creative/destructive impulses. Def. loved the thrill of writing though. Stole spray paint. Made markers out of empty deodorant canisters and sponges and did pieces with the crew.

You all probably know about this stuff but anyway-

Style Wars:

http://www.turntablelab.com/video/0/0/5090.html

Wild Style:

http://www.turntablelab.com/video/0/0/5166.html

Another tangent---
Its funny turntable lab is also carrying some dubstep now as well:

http://www.turntablelab.com/vinyl/0/0/13298.html

There are some positive reviews from the staff of the lab as well.

---------
back on track---


As far as dubstep and graf goes who knows. Maybe if the tone and direction of dubstep infuses some graf artists with ideas concerning their style maybe they can be interconnected.

It's a very open ended thing for me. It will be what it is until it is or isn't..

boomnoise wrote:Rammellzee anyone?

Love Rammellzee

http://www.gothicfuturism.com/

Also love the music he did with K-Rob
BEat BOp

http://www.accesshiphop.com/store/?itemid=11039

johnask wrote:Love Graff and always will; my Dj name was and still is my "tag" since "85"! Damn I'm old; so what, just "KEEP DUB ALIVE."

LOL
We are probably around the same age. Not really that old if you think about it. It's that or I am just fooling myself

Really though- we are not very old. Got another 60 years to go

2000F wrote:This an "old school" throw-up style on a Danish "S-train" (the Copenhagen train net). It was made as promotion for our Roll Deep night in February 2006 in Copenhagen.

Flyers, posters, pieces...

ha ha ha, even before i read anything i thought that had to be a dsb train. lige til!

doomstep wrote:

The Undisputed Stylemaster Phase 2 wrote:"The overstanding that this is our culture and that we shouldn't let others control how it's perceived and conceived, ... this infantile media concocted label, like that word that they slapped on this culture. ... It was never that. We didn't call it that. We called it writing. Nothing anyone does or says is going to change that. ... The truth, from the simplest sentence, which goes back to us, having already appropriated it as writing, which entails so much more that to a degree its indefinable."

Thats fr starters . . . . 2nd the connection between writing and 'ip-'op was generally a geographical one (and overplayed by the media), i.e 1st gen hiphoppers n writers came from the same areas, yes der was bare x-over, many writers attended hiphop jams etc, but many 1st generation writers had nowt t do with hiphop, straight rock heads.

Origanlly writing was pure futurism, almost a direct decendant of the orig. italian movement (minus the politricks) it placed all its emphasis on moving style fwd, these days "graff" has been reduced to a seris of "fonts" repeated ad-infinitum across the globe, as is usually the case when outsiders use third hand sources to mimik folk culture.

You got some nice letters relaks but the problem with "graff" is you cant tell by looking at it where it comes from, it does not reflect locality at all.

Big Up the Sao Paulo man dem still . . . pushing tings foooooorrrrward!!! with der 21stC style.

Im off t work now, sorry bout dat

Well said. I think it's interesting how the hip hop culture was pushed onto a writing culture that seems overall to have been much more interested in Sabbath and Zeppelin.

To be honest, I didn't start this thread to start a discussion on how dubstep and graffiti are inexorably connected, or even to show off some piece I painted after not having painted for a couple years.... Dubstep being a vibes street culture music, surrounded by well designed flyers, stickers etc. seems to rely a lot on the streets of london, and spiraling out from there... (burial interview) and when I think of streets of any city graffiti comes to mind.

But that still doesn't really connect the two. I just thought people would dig posting photos after how many times graffiti references have been made. And their photos would (i thought) make clear some connection.

The fact is dubstep seems to me (and especially grime) to have big relations to hip hop beats.... but maybe that's just because I grew up in america listening to rap/hip hop in the early 90's.

by the way-

--You got some nice letters relaks but the problem with "graff" is you cant --tell by looking at it where it comes from, it does not reflect locality at all.

Does that really matter? I can tell usually where a piece is painted from it's style, and you can certainly see ties in style throughout crew members.... which to me is more important than locality.

doomstep wrote:

The Undisputed Stylemaster Phase 2 wrote:"The overstanding that this is our culture and that we shouldn't let others control how it's perceived and conceived, ... this infantile media concocted label, like that word that they slapped on this culture. ... It was never that. We didn't call it that. We called it writing. Nothing anyone does or says is going to change that. ... The truth, from the simplest sentence, which goes back to us, having already appropriated it as writing, which entails so much more that to a degree its indefinable."

Thats fr starters . . . . 2nd the connection between writing and 'ip-'op was generally a geographical one (and overplayed by the media), i.e 1st gen hiphoppers n writers came from the same areas, yes der was bare x-over, many writers attended hiphop jams etc, but many 1st generation writers had nowt t do with hiphop, straight rock heads.

O:D

Interesting stuff here doomstep.

Where is the phase 2 quote from? Do you have a link for that?

And as far as music and early graff writers go is there a link you can point to concerning that assertion?

Thanks.
.