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Re: Dubstep And Criticism
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm
by mos dan
" less-evolved ", low-brow forms of music, such as drum and bass.
lol
no, there isn't enough criticism, blatantly (though the guy that posted that thread hasn't followed up his challenge by naming any of the records HE thinks are waste!)
a distinction needs to be made:
(1) on forums criticism is always going to be either subdued or, where it exists, reacted to badly - this applies to ANY form of music, simply because everyone can (and will) bite back against the criticism and shout people down. that's what forums are for.
(2) the more comfortable home for criticism is journalism (on the web, in the press, etc), in the sense that every point made does not result in a shouting match. obv journalism is thus less democratic than forums/msg boards, but that's fair enough as us journalists are simply better than you and our opinions are more valid
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:49 pm
by dj $hy
I hate you all
Bunch of tree hugging hippys!
That better?
just how much spare time do ppl have?!
Oh and your tracks suck big cocks!
lmao
But in honesty if you get a shit track dont you just say? I hate the cock sucking "its a wikid bassline bla bla" Oh really ANOTHER LFO bassline....Neva
If you dont like it say it, oh you cant cos you got a cock stuck in your mouth!
Re: Dubstep And Criticism
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:51 pm
by dj $hy
(2) the more comfortable home for criticism is journalism (on the web, in the press, etc), in the sense that every point made does not result in a shouting match. obv journalism is thus less democratic than forums/msg boards, but that's fair enough as us journalists are simply better than you and our opinions are more valid
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:00 pm
by will
i think he has a point...to a degree
music forums in general can be subject to a lot of the 'its all good' attitiude, mainly due to the fact thats its a community of music lovers with common attitiudes to the scene and appreciation of it.
i dont think telling people you think their/another tune is shit simply because you dont like it will help the scene either though, constructive criticism or simply not buying a record is enough to show you are not a feeling it as much as others.
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:06 pm
by ramadanman
I'd rather the forum remained as it is, rather than turn into a DOA style with threads like "OMG The new skream record is shit".
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:14 pm
by djgyn
For many people, this is a "new" and exciting genre. You cannot help that this growing scene has many vocal champions. If we had the same proportion of naysayers in dubstep that we have in d&b, we'd suck just as much as most d&b does these days.
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:17 pm
by digital
Is it all about respect? Surely its each to his/her own personal preference, and its wrong to uphold someone for giving their honest opinion.
I wouldnt say I dislike any dubstep, its just a case of there are tracks that I think are better than others, and I wouldnt see a problem in naming specific tracks that I thought weren't great.
If I was a top producer I would want constructive criticism so I could understand why people aren't feeling some tracks over others.
I have noticed a conventional line of thinking where by any criticism is not welcome. But then again lesser known producers that post tracks in this forum have their tracks open for praise, criticsim and improvements, does this mean the bigger, more well known are untouchable when it comes to reviewing their music unless it is positive?
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:21 pm
by gravious
I agree to an extent. There is a lot of mutual back-patting.
However, I don't see how coming onto forums and slagging tunes senseless is going to help.
There are plenty of 'big' tracks by big producers that I'm not feeling by people like Mystikz, Loefah, Skream and such - who are supposedly untouchable according to that quote.
I just don't really see the point in making a big list of them.
Cue "Dubstepforum Montly Bottom Ten: the crappiest productions this month according to ten of the scenes' shite-est DJs" on the music forum.
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:26 pm
by spaceboy
i reckon i am one of the scene's shitter dj's
so no one gives me tunes.
oh well. such is life.
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:27 pm
by poax
i reckon certain producers have their sound and thats what is important , by opening their tracks to criticism they then start questioning their sound and writing beats for a majority instead of their own personal satisfaction.
ill be the first to say that you need criticism with most things in life, but ultimatley just need people to keep puttin out the music good and bad.
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:35 pm
by rickyricardo
I'd only partially agree. There are certainly those who will view almost every release by a producer w/ a rather uncritical eye (and, this would largely come from ppl who are friends w/ or know said producer).
But I've also seen plenty of people on here say flat out when they don't like tracks. I've said it plenty of times, myself. When someone posts a tune their working on, you'll see whole threads of constructive criticism.
Harping on who or what you don't like (as well as raging crusades against certain types of sounds) is counter-productive, though. And in terms of this forum only runs the risk of making it more like DOA.
sure there are zealots....but what genre doesn't have a few of those. here's an exercise: Go on the DSCI4 board and talk shit on kemal. See where that gets you...
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:36 pm
by paradigm_x
i think the big difference is that there doesnt seem to be a 'commercial' end to dubstep yet its all underground so even if you dont like it it has at least an appeal to the dubstep crew.
the only tunes that get really slagged on doa and elsewhere seem to be the 'sellout' tunes that offend people who like dnb being 'underground'
i mean if skream or vexd or whoever did a tune with avril laverne or kylie i imagine a load of people would be disappointed.
IMO
edit and the mega cheesy clipz jumpup things, and mainly the criticism is directed at people who have 'fell off' (in their opinions) eg krust, roni size, photek et al...
is there any cheesy dubstep yet ?
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:38 pm
by poax
Paradigm X wrote:i think the big difference is that there doesnt seem to be a 'commercial' end to dubstep yet its all underground so even if you dont like it it has at least an appeal to the dubstep crew.
the only tunes that get really slagged on doa and elsewhere seem to be the 'sellout' tunes that offend people who like dnb being 'underground'
i mean if skream or vexd or whoever did a tune with avril laverne or kylie i imagine a load of people would be disappointed.
IMO
im so ready for that , eyes peeled for kode9 and gareth gates, not ready for gates bbbbbbars
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:39 pm
by paradigm_x
gareth gates goes into a shop to buy a mars bar and comes out with a packet of m&ms....
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:39 pm
by mos dan
Paradigm X wrote:i mean if skream or vexd or whoever did a tune with avril laverne or kylie i imagine a load of people would be disappointed.
vex'd vs avril lavigne
that would be AMAZING
Re: Dubstep And Criticism
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:41 pm
by dq
a bit of criticism from the man like simon reynolds. it would hurt more if it wasn't so damn well written....
blissblogger wrote:
and also on dubstep
[is it just me or is the whole Bass Theology thing getting a bit tired, both as sonic praxis and a belief system? the ideas have something of a lived-in air about them at this late hour... i was at Dub War's ist birthday bash(ment) coupla weeks back, excellent vibe, good fun, but the way people got worked up about the most bog-standard eruptions of low-end was quite bizarre, it seemed out of proportion to what was actually being done in terms of creativity or impact... and it was very much case that the tracks that stood out through the night were the ones with something going on in the treble zone, those "high end flitting sounds" Kpunk identifies in Skream, or flickering dub-tingles in the intro.... that's where the rush comes in for me, these intermittent echoes in dubstep of 2step's great innovation, its discovery of the mind-altering properties of excessive treble... whereas when the bass heaves itself into view i often felt insufficiently whelmed, "that's it?!"]
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:46 pm
by spaceboy
sonic praxis and belief system?
U WOT MATE?
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:52 pm
by adruu
yeah this is pointless
Re: Dubstep And Criticism
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:56 pm
by rickyricardo
dq wrote:a bit of criticism from the man like simon reynolds. it would hurt more if it wasn't so damn well written....
blissblogger wrote:
and also on dubstep
[is it just me or is the whole Bass Theology thing getting a bit tired, both as sonic praxis and a belief system? the ideas have something of a lived-in air about them at this late hour... i was at Dub War's ist birthday bash(ment) coupla weeks back, excellent vibe, good fun, but the way people got worked up about the most bog-standard eruptions of low-end was quite bizarre, it seemed out of proportion to what was actually being done in terms of creativity or impact... and it was very much case that the tracks that stood out through the night were the ones with something going on in the treble zone, those "high end flitting sounds" Kpunk identifies in
Skream, or flickering dub-tingles in the intro.... that's where the rush comes in for me, these intermittent echoes in dubstep of 2step's great innovation, its discovery of the mind-altering properties of excessive treble... whereas when the bass heaves itself into view i often felt insufficiently whelmed, "that's it?!"]
I read that on his blog a while back too, but honestly it didn't get me all that worked up. Half the excitement to hearing all these tunes, was hearing them out on a big system, with a bunch of other people that feel the sound too. And around here we don't get that opportunity very often...it's not like we have a FWD to go to every week. Most of the tunes being played I'd only heard over tinny computer speakers.
No, every tune wasn't some amazing work of art worth philosophising over.....but I'm also not going to sit there stroking my chin on every drop deciding whether to brock out or not. I'm hearing good music, hanging w/ good people, somewhat drunk, and having a great time. What's not to get excited about? Don't get me wrong, I love reading Simon's criticisms, but it sounds to me like he's forgotten how to party.
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:04 pm
by mos dan
simon reynolds' tune of 2005 was 'reload it' by kano
it's a cheap shot mentioning that here, but whatevs