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We are living in very interesting times indeed and I feel that its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. We are steadily reaching the point where we wont be able to refine any more oil. When that happens everything will change. We will have to go back and live more basic, there won't be any other choice. I look forward to the oppotunities this brings. We will have to reclaim the land and work together within our own communities if we want to survive.

My biggest issue with all this is that no one is prepared for what if going to happen. I myself have very little practical skills, especially in the context of living in tandum with nature. I am looking into and acquiring new skills but I feel that the majority of the population will not do this.

I think that massive social change is needed. How this happens I am not sure. But as soon as we can find some slight common ground and rise up against this system then things will start to get better.

If it broke down during though.............?

Our world is changing. They are trying to encourage troubled teens to join scouts.

Don't see that happening - or even if it does wont be long till someone gets their knife badge.

LEQ wrote:If it broke down during though.............?

WD40 mate.

hydrogen fuel cells, once they have a safe way of containing them..

also havent they just found a massive oil deposit on the pacific shelf?

I have seen a huge increase in electric vehicles - particular lorries around the SE1 area.

Over-general post bredrin. Some interesting points still.

However, economic depression usually leads to conflict and war of some kind. Know your history.

unfortunately dreamizm is indeed right...

That eco living experiance already exists, can remember reading about something very similar done in Spain, it made me laugh.

I would like to say that the future is socialist revolution and that these are just the beginning steps but although I think this will eventually happen I think it is a long way off and we have some prity hard times ahead first. It is sad to say but the more I see a growth in those with a social concious the more I see a growth in those without.

deamonds wrote:hydrogen fuel cells, once they have a safe way of containing them..

also havent they just found a massive oil deposit on the pacific shelf?

There is a shed load of oil left in the world. Maybe even more than a shed full. But the result of using it all up is that the planet fucks it big time. Hydrogen fuel would be an answer. But you still need power to actually create the fuel surely? This is the major problem I can see with all the renewable options. They are good but they still need to be created and we need oil/electricity to do this at the moment. If we put all our efforts into creating this stuff now then it would be fine but I think it will left to the last minute tbh.

Tomity wrote:

deamonds wrote:hydrogen fuel cells, once they have a safe way of containing them..

also havent they just found a massive oil deposit on the pacific shelf?

There is a shed load of oil left in the world. Maybe even more than a shed full. But the result of using it all up is that the planet fucks it big time. Hydrogen fuel would be an answer. But you still need power to actually create the fuel surely? This is the major problem I can see with all the renewable options. They are good but they still need to be created and we need oil/electricity to do this at the moment. If we put all our efforts into creating this stuff now then it would be fine but I think it will left to the last minute tbh.

There is that reserve and also massive reserves in Alaska and Northern Canada, not to mention Russia and probably elsewhere in the world...

but thats beside the point.

Hydrogen and other alternatives will become more popular when it becomes profitable for them to be. The Toyota Prius, the first worthwhile hybrid, went from somewhat of a geeky joke to one of Toyota's best selling cars in the last few years. Chevy is releasing the Volt next year, which is a plug-in hybrid that only uses the small gas engine to recharge the battery. The only reason these cars are being made in bigger numbers now is that they are profitable. Toyota almost scrapped the Prius after its second or third year because no one was buying them when they first came out and gas was still below $3 a gallon.


As for Misk's original question... I dont see the current state of affairs changing much very quickly, and when things dont change quickly, they seem to stay the same. Although I live in a vastly different world than I did 5 years ago, it doesnt feel like much has changed until I start to go back and recount all that has happened. I think it will be like that in the future. As optimistic for change as I like to be, it will be more like watching a child grow... one day you wake up and they're graduating, and you're flying there in a new hovercar and it seems perfectly natural.

The Prius is ownly succesfull because of the in-fad to be green, it is a fashion statement more then anything else, it is not even that amazing when it comes to CO2 emmisions, fact you'd probably just be better of in a small hatchback.

eLBe wrote:The Prius is ownly succesfull because of the in-fad to be green, it is a fashion statement more then anything else, it is not even that amazing when it comes to CO2 emmisions, fact you'd probably just be better of in a small hatchback.

Partially. The sales really went up when the gas prices started to rise, because people have been sold on the idea that hybrid=better, even though a Geo Metro gets waaaay better gas milage. Recent Prius/Hybrid sales are huge though, at least here in Southern California.

I did say worthwhile though, not perfect. IMO, hybrids are not the way to go at all. Better emissions and biodiesel are two much better short term options to me. If more of an effort was made to reprocess fast food grease into biofuel, we could probably put a significant dent in our dependancy on petroleum.

They are also starting to make more fuel efficent cars in the Swindon factory now as they are in such high demand.

kidlogic wrote: If more of an effort was made to reprocess fast food grease into biofuel, .

4sure, this is def needs more investment, huge potential, though all those helthy eater peeps are tryin to ruin this option.

Which kinda proves what I was saying... the Geo Metro is the perfect example of this. It was considered kindof a failure at the time (mid 90's) cause its an ugly little 3 cylinder hatchback. But it gets close to 40mpg. Now it gets almost as much as it was worth new for a used one due to demand.

eLBe wrote:

kidlogic wrote: If more of an effort was made to reprocess fast food grease into biofuel, .

4sure, this is def needs more investment, huge potential, though all those helthy eater peeps are tryin to ruin this option.

Even with healthy eaters, in LA theres a fucking mc d's on almost every other block... I wish I were exagerating. Thats not counting the 5 other major fast food chains and all the other restaurants. Even the 'Grilled' chicken sandwhiches there produce grease when they're cooked... I dont think we'd have a shortage here anytime soon, and LA is one of the more overall healthy conscious cities in Cali, right there with SF.

eLBe wrote:I would like to say that the future is socialist revolution and that these are just the beginning steps...

The proles are too dumb/apathetic/segregated to revolt now or in the forseeable future.