Dubstepforum.com

DROKKR wrote:

drifterman_ wrote:I often hear people who have been DJ'ing a year tell me they have it locked. Its never the case. To mix seamlessly for a whole night takes a lot of skill and concentration. I respect any DJ who can even drop a perfect 1 hour mix with no fuckups however small. I can count the amount of DJ's in the dubstep scene who can do that on one hand.

i think this is because alot of the "bigger" names in dubstep were producers first and have to dj to promote themselves and their releases...

this happens in all genres of music tho'

Exactly.
Its quite shocking how bad some of them are at mixing tbh. There is no need to go into any names but quite a few of them sound like its there first time.

I heard a set recently from this forum where one of the producers were playing at a festival and I was cringing for the first 15 mins and had to turn it off. Shockingly bad.

I only see this kind of shit in Dubstep. I cant rem last time I heard the same thing going in House, Techno or Electro. I know fuckall about Garage/Dnb scene really.

now to think of it, it is really only in dubstep.
maybe i'm too critical of djs.
if it is some random dj behind the decks and he or she is tearing up the dancefloor then i have a big smile on my face and if its not going so well for them its ok i won't start whinging...
BUT
if it's someone getting well paid because of their name and they are bit shite i can get a bit pissed off having, in most cases, paid to see them. it's not on in my book.

DROKKR wrote:now to think of it, it is really only in dubstep.
maybe i'm too critical of djs.
if it is some random dj behind the decks and he or she is tearing up the dancefloor then i have a big smile on my face and if its not going so well for them its ok i won't start whinging...
BUT
if it's someone getting well paid because of their name and they are bit shite i can get a bit pissed off having, in most cases, paid to see them. it's not on in my book.

I'm exactly the same.
Very disappointing when I pay to see someone play and they cannot even mix two records.

I don't think it is important at all to learn on records and turntables these days. When I started, that was the only way to do it, I had no choice. If I was starting now though I would just use Ableton. Rocking a crowd has nothing to do with what gear you use.

abZ wrote:I don't think it is important at all to learn on records and turntables these days. When I started, that was the only way to do it, I had no choice. If I was starting now though I would just use Ableton. Rocking a crowd has nothing to do with what gear you use.

I totally disagree with you !!!

to say "not important at all" ???

getting tracks running in Ableton is such a relatively simple process that involves nothing more than visually lining up digital files.. and hitting go.

I won't even compare working on tables to Ableton - because it seems like a moot point.. I'm just troubled by the fact you said it wasn't important at all!

I see tons of value in an individual using hand-eye coordination and a sense of inner time that can account for concentrating on 2 separate beats at the same time as well as the personal aesthetic tastes of the individual reflected in the presentation of it all - the human being is doing the thinking and the provides the physical action behind what is happening sonically !!! Its a very complicated cognitive process where a human brain produces the results! What could be more important than that !!!

Jolly Wailer wrote:

abZ wrote:I don't think it is important at all to learn on records and turntables these days. When I started, that was the only way to do it, I had no choice. If I was starting now though I would just use Ableton. Rocking a crowd has nothing to do with what gear you use.

I totally disagree with you !!!

to say "not important at all" ???

getting tracks running in Ableton is such a relatively simple process that involves nothing more than visually lining up digital files.. and hitting go.

I won't even compare working on tables to Ableton - because it seems like a moot point.. I'm just troubled by the fact you said it wasn't important at all!

I see tons of value in an individual using hand-eye coordination and a sense of inner time that can account for concentrating on 2 separate beats at the same time as well as the personal aesthetic tastes of the individual reflected in the presentation of it all - the human being is doing the thinking and the provides the physical action behind what is happening sonically !!! Its a very complicated cognitive process where a human brain produces the results! What could be more important than that !!!

We will have to agree to disagree. Ableton doesn't take care of the creative process for you. You still have to know what goes with what no matter what you use. But you know this I don't know why you need to pull me into an argument. It has been done to death. I use records purely to keep myself from falling asleep while I dj. I would much rather hear sets without the trainwrecks and little slips. No one liked that stuff until the software came out to allow perfect mixes. Now all of a sudden everyone is into trainwrecks or the little slips = soul? It is silliness.

also obviously vis-a-vis how DJing might help production you learn fast that certain types of production styles lend themselves better to mixing and therefore certain producers are more popular with DJs..

Why does it matter that tunes are popular with DJs?? Because alot (arguably most) of records are sold on the strength that they were heard in someone's mix.

Skream and Benga are good examples, a nice dry overall production value, and very pointy rhythms - no mud - Skreams tunes mix in like butter, same with 2562..

Other tunes I might love to death and own on vinyl but they just don't blend that well - or only blend in a certain way, or sometimes never..

some tunes mix in well with almost anything - 'swing dat skirt' being a great example.

Also thinking that Coki's atonal basslines were a conscious choice to avoid issues of mixing "in key". But that's speculation, its pretty true nonetheless.

When you get a tune on vinyl, you can put it on the platter and just fuck with it - microanalyze it - you can see on some productions that there's this tiny space of silence before a snare hit, just by manipulating the record.. having those little breathing points in your tunes are what help DJs cue up tracks and what help tunes mesh together - complimentary space.. There's no way you would know this as a beat maker if you never laid your hands on a set of tables and got a few records to practice mixing - unless you were really intuitive or read something written by someone who did bother to take the time to learn how to use "obsolete" vinyl playback technology.

nah AbZ not pulling you into an argument.. why bother. Agree to disagree - I said I didn't want to compare the two, although I hinted at it. They are two different things, each has their own value - and I actually was just criticizing ableton from a standpoint of making mixes with it - I realize it can be used very creatively too.

Don't wanna argue - just you saying learning to spin wasn't important "at all" I thought was alarming.. Its a useful party trick methinks

Jolly Wailer wrote:nah AbZ not pulling you into an argument.. why bother. Agree to disagree - I said I didn't want to compare the two, although I hinted at it. They are two different things, each has their own value - and I actually was just criticizing ableton from a standpoint of making mixes with it - I realize it can be used very creatively too.

Don't wanna argue - just you saying learning to spin wasn't important "at all" I thought was alarming.. Its a useful party trick methinks

That is exactly the way I feel. Useful party trick. It is also fun to do. I guess that is why I don't use Ableton to mix. I am just more concerned with the ends rather than the means.

Serato is fine as long as you are mixing.

At ableton though I draw the line, unless the guy is actually doing something amazing with the software. I think it makes a big difference when there is the excitement factor there. You feel much more satisfaction when you pull off that tricky mix, double drop or even just get two records locked which sound good together, its a feeling of accomplishment which I don't think is attainable through Do It For You software programs like Ableton et al.

Although saying that I am definitley not one of these guys who sneers upon people just because they use a certain piece of software or don't use vinyl. I say use what makes you feel happy, even if that is using Ableton to beatmatch for you. If you enjoy it then do it. But don't think you are a big DJ because you can instruct a PC to lock two beats together in Ableton and have the crowd cheering for your mixes. Know yourself and respect those who are better than you!

I've been mixing about 3 and 1/2 years and I still don't think I'm good enough to be DJ'ing out of my own bedroom. Although I can mix well enough and certainly, in my eyes, better than alot of the DJ's I go and see - I want to give the crowd something memorable and not in a bad way. Which is why I'd rather sit in my room and perfect this craft even if it takes 10 more years, rather than being mediocre and rushing it because I'm hungry for some recognition.