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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:49 am
by djshiva
dubz wrote:ez
Just been reflecting on the state of dubstep and I reckon that virtually all the sick tunes take much longer than other genres to be released. This made me think that many dubstep producers are compulsive hoarders of their music. Cmmon be a champ and release the shit while it's still hot...sharing is caring! I don't give a fuck - I buy it, but I'm sick of hearing others dropping it, the time I buy it - it's stale.mad weak.
/end rant
coming from another genre, that is not as dependent upon the "dub" mentality, i have to say that it probably SEEMS like it takes longer than other genres. but i know at least from the techno world standpoint, you just don't HEAR them as fast as you do in this scene. a lot of people keep a hold of their new tunes and don't have them in every big name djs hands within a day of making them. so when they come out, they seem fresh, even if they really are not.
perhaps our reliance on upfront dubs is actually becoming an annoyance?
Surface_Tension wrote:
As a consumer you have a right to DEMAND, my friend.
i have to disagree. you can demand all you want, but an artist has the right to do with their music what they want. if they want it to be consumed, then they can put it out there to be bought. if they choose for it not to be consumed, but to remain something special for them, then they have every right to do so.
art doesn't have to act according to the dictates of mass consumption. that's up to the artist whether they want to enter into that equation and when.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:53 am
by surface_tension
Reptilian wrote:Surface_Tension wrote:
As a consumer you have a right to DEMAND, my friend.
don't patronise me - its you who blatantly doesn't get it
When peddling cupcakes, it's best not to let the masses get fat on icing while waiting for the shit to bake, get me?
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:03 am
by pdomino
Blackdown wrote: is not that dubstep tunes come out late, its that .... thanks to dubs, you get to hear them early.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:14 am
by surface_tension
pdomino wrote:Blackdown wrote: is not that dubstep tunes come out late, its that .... thanks to dubs, you get to hear them early.
And we're talking about whether this is a good thing or not. To an extent, yes... if they are exclusive. But if every big DJ is playing them and it's NOT EXCLUSIVE, then it's a problem. I think Reptilian had a point sorta, but then missed mine. Coki can have those dubs. But if the tune is going to be released, it's a STUPID IDEA to play the tune over and over leading up to the release and making it so people hate the tune.
I can think of several iconic tunes in the scene here that got played to death before coming out, wheeled 4 and 5 times at major nights, etc... and then they come out... FIZZLE.
Shoulda held the load, know what I mean? It's all about timing with these things. Trust me, less news is good news. When you hear a Mala tune coming out, frankly it's only been played by him and few others. Not many people would question his sense of what does and doesn't sell(except Digital maybe
)
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:16 am
by deamonds
Blackdown wrote:people want everything now, but it can take months, sometimes years to write, mix and master a good track. why shouldnt the producer or a good dj be able to have this track in advance for a bit if he invested so much time to make or break it?
after all this is a key part of makes them an appealing DJ. would we all be so excited about seeing our favourite DJ if they just played their back catalog from start to finish?
to me this is all about dubplate culture and the point about dubpate culture compared to say, commercial house, is not that dubstep tunes come out late, it that thanks to dubs, you get to hear them early.
do you not get bored replying constantly to these inane threads???
or do you have like a set of templates that you continue to use on similar winging??
either way, i cant believe you take the time to offer a constructive reply when you know for a fact there will be a new thread/same content next week..
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:49 am
by _boring
its part of the game. sorry.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:52 am
by surface_tension
-boring wrote:its part of the game. sorry.
Sometimes we don't want to play Monopoly.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:08 am
by blackdown
deamonds wrote:do you not get bored replying constantly to these inane threads???
or do you have like a set of templates that you continue to use on similar winging??
either way, i cant believe you take the time to offer a constructive reply when you know for a fact there will be a new thread/same content next week..
ahaha, ya dun know!
thing is, certain people in this thread seem to fail to recognise the role of both dubplates and the a-list DJs (who largely build this scene from nothing and have a right to their position i might add) in the creation of demand. demand isnt created when the tune is created, it's created when DJs play a tune and expose it to people.
and looking deeper into the nature of dubs and demand, i'd question what people think dubplates are actually for. sure, they create demand but i think on the whole dubstep producers dont make music to create financial demand for consumers, they make music because they love dubstep, love DJing original sets and want to see people enjoy the feeling of hearing their music on a 10k rig...
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:17 am
by mr. merchant
this has been a frustration of mine for a long time. dating back many years ago to when i was into drum and bass, the time it takes dubstep tunes to drop doesn't seem that much different. this has been on going in this culture for a long time. i just picked up a whole bunch of tunes that i have been hearing on mixes and live sets, and i totaly have that feeling. at the same time when i play these tunes out, most of the kids in my city haven't heard them yet, don't care or won't notice. i'm still going to play them and enjoy the hell out of it. its the heads and the trainspotters that really take notice. its nice to have fresh stuff but i think crowds also enjoy familiar tunes.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:31 am
by deamonds
Blackdown wrote:they make music because they love dubstep, love DJing original sets and want to see people enjoy the feeling of hearing their music on a 10k rig...
picking up dubstep from grime, i can appreciate hearing a dubplate..
Rather than my 1st thought be "when's this coming out" its more greatfulness of hearing it (if that makes sense?
)
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:34 am
by _boring
-boring wrote:its part of the game. sorry.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:37 am
by dubloke
jasonn wrote:End solution to your worries..start producing yourself.
thats all well and good, but clearly these producers have a special talent/ style, which is why people like their music. I've tried producing and I'm shit
I can understand the dubplate culture but sometimes it is dragged on for too long. One tune that was perfectley timed was Fick, I still aint killed that tune, whereas Filth has started to be, not in clubs (on the right system that tune is
), but when I'm at home. I'm all for tune being kept exclusive, DJs have worked hard to make a name for themselves meaning they get the exclusive tunes, same with producers, but if a tune is not being played as much any more, I feel it would be more beneficial to release it while its still got that wow factor, rather than wait until its been killed for alot of people. Thats just my opinion though
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:58 am
by SickMan D
A decent tune will always be a decent tune, if the producer wants to keep it close for 6 months thats up to them, maybe they dont want to release it, maybe they dont feel they have to.
Keep buildin the hype though
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:04 am
by surface_tension
This is not about Dubplate culture, it's about having 30 DJ's playing tunes on every radio show, every mix that is posted for archives, etc... these tunes aren't exclusive to 1-2 people... we're not talking about Mala playing all Mala dubs--most other TOP DJ's don't even have Mala's Dubs...
There is a blatant difference between THAT and what we are talking about in this thread.
THE TOPIC, IF WE CAN GET BACK TO THAT, IS FORTHCOMING TUNES being played for 6 months prior to the release by every major DJ. It's not exclusive, it's ultra inclusive, to the point that all of the appeal has worn off.
Then when the gum is chewed and flavourless, they release that track on vinyl and wonder why sales are down. I'll tell you why, because 6 months is a lot of time to plug leaks. It's also a long time to be hearing a tune. How many times has a tune been played to death, only to not sell at all?
Too damn many, that is the point of this thread. Any discussion of Producers rights to exclusive tunes is off topic here. We're talking about how smart it is to hold back on releases and let them ride in the radio circuit for 6 months to a year, not tunes that won't ever come out--tunes that SHOULDNT come out, because nobody left on the planet still wants to hear it by that point.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:10 am
by pdomino
Surface_Tension wrote:pdomino wrote:Blackdown wrote: is not that dubstep tunes come out late, its that .... thanks to dubs, you get to hear them early.
And we're talking about whether this is a good thing or not.
Thats my point, its a good thing that we are getting to hear new or exclusive music, some never to be released, whats next ... progression etc. Creates stature.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:11 am
by _boring
^tru.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:12 am
by manray
I don't think anyone is intentionally holding back releases for extended periods of times. There is certainly an element for DJ's wanting to keep their stuff exclusive but that has to be balanced against supplying enough tunes to keep people happy.
Sure there are going to be certain tracks that they might never want to release but for the most part aren't producers making music for YOU? I'm sure that as more tunes are sold the more tunes that will get a release.
At one point when DNB was blowing up a few producers had new tracks release every month. I think it was Twisted Individual who started it off with a new white label every month.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:14 am
by threnody
It is a case of releasing being a process. A label picks up your tune...you have to wait for it to come round in their release schedule (which can take ages!!) on top of tht you have pressing, mastering, artwork etc which can all add time on and distributors who delay the process (maybe less so for bigger labels!). The whole thing takes time.
A producer may make their tune and play it and give it to a select few people to play out.....The label will then distribute it to DJs closer to the time. I can imagine most producers would like their tunes to hit wax a month after completion but this is not possible the majority of the time.
Also by playing out a tune on dub it gives the producer a chance to hear it and change it/alter the mix etc.....
Not black and white and so many things get in the way from a tune leaving the harddrive and hitting wax. The answer of course is to produce yourselves.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:53 am
by __________
Surface_Tension wrote:Reptilian wrote:Surface_Tension wrote:
As a consumer you have a right to DEMAND, my friend.
don't patronise me - its you who blatantly doesn't get it
When peddling cupcakes, it's best not to let the masses get fat on icing while waiting for the shit to bake, get me?
I don't think anyone gets ya blud, ya chatting shit, get me? brockwide
STOP COMPLAINING
gully brooke lane dropped 2 years late didn't it? i couldn't care less! its a fucking huge tune!
if the tune loses its magic in the time between dub + release, it can't have been such a great tune in the first place.
grow up people. go read the negative thread
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:54 am
by deamonds
[quote="Surface_Tension"][/quote]
Mate you do spout an awful lot of shit...
i dont know the last time a producer/label owner/anyone in that case came on here & complained about vinyl sales being down and if there has i have never witnessed it...EDIT* Especially saying the reason was dubplates????arse
coki - bloodthirst, got abeselutly KANED on radio/raves (with good reason) for a number of years...i still bought it
hijak - tears, murdered just the same, i snapped that up quicker than anything..
DMZ - in luv, see where im going with this..
ultimately, i think its jealousy that so many dj's have got one tune & you havent...& 2 be quite honest its been the same for fucking ages, in fact since i can remember, dont hate...deal with it
either that or
DJ'd dont play fucking dubplates no more because of moaners like you & all we listen 2 is what is currently released...that sound good? no it doesnt, now crawl back under your rock & stop fucking moaning