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One thing off the top of my head that gripes me about FL, is that when you grab a sample clip and go to move it around....if you've accidentally grabbed the edge of the clip, it thinks you want to resize it....and resizes and then stretches every instance of that sample in your tune....and doesn't seem to have the undo option. Bastards.

Maybe it's just me and my click happy sausage fingers tho.

nowaysj wrote:cubase you can get up into the sample level in the arrange page, you can get close to that, but you can't get all the way in reaper. About the same level as fl, last time I checked.

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Hate in fruity where you draw a loop, it selects every clip falling within that loop. For the past 4 years or so, when I draw a loop I'll go in and do an operation to a clip, and it will affect everything selected. And so you have to undo, then ctrl click into an empty space in the playlist to deselect everything, and then do your operation. FUCKING ANNOYING AS ALL HELL. I mentioned this years ago to fl's dev, and everyone was like we LOVE the loop selector selects all the contents of the loop.... Hate it.

Reaper can zoom up to the sample level, and has options for different ways of displaying the samples. It doesn't have a 'pencil mode' for smoothing out clicks and pops etc though. Not yet aty least.

Here are some screen shots. Obvisously if you don't like the colours they can be changed in the theme editor.






The options menu for displaying waveform peaks.


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I don't know all the keyboard shortcuts etc, but one of the things that really bugged me in FL was trying to select loops, or to even play back from certain points. It seemed to me each time I wanted to play from a certain point, I had to switch tools?? (I know that's not so, because others have pointed out that one doesn't need to do that, I just didn't know the alternative methods at the time).

Maree-Jaine wrote:One thing off the top of my head that gripes me about FL, is that when you grab a sample clip and go to move it around....if you've accidentally grabbed the edge of the clip, it thinks you want to resize it....and resizes and then stretches every instance of that sample in your tune....and doesn't seem to have the undo option. Bastards.

Maybe it's just me and my click happy sausage fingers tho.

This used to bug the FUCK out of me.

In Reaper what bugs me most is when I have a loop and I click into the main window for something and forget to revert focus to the midi editor. Home button takes you to the start of the track instead of the start of the clip.
And some other stuff like playback insertion settings that I'm too lazy to change. I really do have to customize my shit soon...

Maree-Jaine wrote:One thing off the top of my head that gripes me about FL, is that when you grab a sample clip and go to move it around....if you've accidentally grabbed the edge of the clip, it thinks you want to resize it....and resizes and then stretches every instance of that sample in your tune....and doesn't seem to have the undo option. Bastards.

Maybe it's just me and my click happy sausage fingers tho.

I never, I mean never accidentally resize a clip when I'm trying to move it. But I DO accidentally stretch clips when I want to drag their endpoint out. The fact that it's the same mouse actions is a travesty of ui design. And a further travesty that you can't undo the mistake. Holy christ have I been fist clenched arm drawn back ready to punch a cartoon hole right through my lcd on that one. I mean EXTREMELY angry. You HAVE to stretch your clip and then TURN OFF STRETCH. You have to, because you will make this mistake otherwise, and it can be extremely costly. I'm just getting to the point where I remember 50% of the time. Usually after you stretch something out, you're more focused on how it sounds rather than declicking a little button.

Unlimited undo & non destructive edits, Reaper beckons

nowaysj wrote:

Maree-Jaine wrote:One thing off the top of my head that gripes me about FL, is that when you grab a sample clip and go to move it around....if you've accidentally grabbed the edge of the clip, it thinks you want to resize it....and resizes and then stretches every instance of that sample in your tune....and doesn't seem to have the undo option. Bastards.

Maybe it's just me and my click happy sausage fingers tho.

I never, I mean never accidentally resize a clip when I'm trying to move it. But I DO accidentally stretch clips when I want to drag their endpoint out. The fact that it's the same mouse actions is a travesty of ui design. And a further travesty that you can't undo the mistake. Holy christ have I been fist clenched arm drawn back ready to punch a cartoon hole right through my lcd on that one. I mean EXTREMELY angry. You HAVE to stretch your clip and then TURN OFF STRETCH. You have to, because you will make this mistake otherwise, and it can be extremely costly. I'm just getting to the point where I remember 50% of the time. Usually after you stretch something out, you're more focused on how it sounds rather than declicking a little button.

Maybe it just stretches it...I dunno, it just messes up my tune and then won't undo, and it is infuriating!! Not so good on the technical terms, sorry. I've been doing it less tho recently. I zoom in real close now haha. Luckily I seem to have become the queen of the "save new version" option, so I can always go back a couple of steps if I bugger it up. Still a pain in the arse tho. I agree with you about the same mouse action thing, many times have I forgotten that I have selected the delete tool and lost half my tune trying to move it... Pah!

I shouldn't moan really, I won't use out else at the mo, so it's pretty much my own fault really innit! Need to get my Ableton Live installed and have a fiddle with that. I've only opened Reason a couple of times and it really made little to no sense to me. Spent a while trying to find the step sequencer haha. Cubase seems pretty logically laid out, but it's like I can't find anything where I think it would be! (I should really install the version I have of that, which came free with something or other....audio interface maybe?) I've watched a couple of people play on Logic a few times, looked a bit like Cubase to me, but with more colours...but never tried it so I'll bet I'm wrong. (As a side note, I don't think I'm ever gonna be able to afford to buy a Mac, and I don't particularly want to either.) FL is just easy for me, it's the first DAW I started with and I've stuck with it and taught myself how to use it. It does pretty much what I need it to do, and cos I've used it for a fair while now I can throw the rough framework of a tune together in a couple of hours... which then leaves me the rest of my life to fiddle with it in the endless search for perfection

futures_untold wrote:Unlimited undo & non destructive edits, Reaper beckons

Ableton *waves

abZ wrote:

futures_untold wrote:Unlimited undo & non destructive edits, Reaper beckons

Ableton *waves

logic *waves also

The one thing I think I can think of that I don't like about ableton is all it's 'warp' malarky and the way it deals with audio, I do almost all my audio editing etc in audacity because ableton pisses me off so much. Spose thats the price you pay for sharing a program with DJs XD I have heard that in version 8 it's more producer friendly but I can't afford the upgrade right now

paravrais wrote:The one thing I think I can think of that I don't like about ableton is all it's 'warp' malarky and the way it deals with audio, I do almost all my audio editing etc in audacity because ableton pisses me off so much. Spose thats the price you pay for sharing a program with DJs XD I have heard that in version 8 it's more producer friendly but I can't afford the upgrade right now

Maybe it's just the differences in the way we work but I am curious on how exactly do you want it to handle audio that it doesn't do? I pretty much quit using sound fordge since I moved to ableton.

Depone wrote:

abZ wrote:

futures_untold wrote:Unlimited undo & non destructive edits, Reaper beckons

Ableton *waves

logic *waves also

Cubase *waves like a retard on steroids

abZ wrote:

paravrais wrote:The one thing I think I can think of that I don't like about ableton is all it's 'warp' malarky and the way it deals with audio, I do almost all my audio editing etc in audacity because ableton pisses me off so much. Spose thats the price you pay for sharing a program with DJs XD I have heard that in version 8 it's more producer friendly but I can't afford the upgrade right now

Maybe it's just the differences in the way we work but I am curious on how exactly do you want it to handle audio that it doesn't do? I pretty much quit using sound fordge since I moved to ableton.

Theres nothing that it *doesn't* do, I just find it fiddly. I don't do that much to most audio anyway as I either record myself over and over untill I get a bit perfect or chop little bits out which I can do fine in ableton. It's just for things like sampling vocals/effects from a film I will record them off whatever with audacity then chop them up into little bits still in audacity because its so much easier and simpler.

Steinberg called and told me to tell you guys "you're welcome for letting us invent the VST"

Yeah I still don't really get it. I like to import the piece I want to work with into audio lanes and then roughly highlight what I want and drag it into a sampler or drumracks or what have you and refine the start and end points there. Makes more sense to me then to switch to a totally different program. To each his own.

Btw anyone using a program without infinite undos please exit thread right.

FSTZ wrote:Steinberg called and told me to tell you guys "you're welcome for letting us invent the VST"

Thanks now buhbye.

Yup, has a full undo history window like Photoshop, limited only by the amount of memory you allocate to the funtion.......

You can even save the undo steps to a file, so even after you close the session, you still have access to every step you made in the project. Ho hum.

I just reinstalled Reaper (along with everything else, fucking random bsods ) and I don't see why everyone thinks the default theme is ugly?? I'd rate it above most other daws. It's like if Cubase quit crack and went on Oprah for a makeover.

abZ wrote:Yeah I still don't really get it. I like to import the piece I want to work with into audio lanes and then roughly highlight what I want and drag it into a sampler or drumracks or what have you and refine the start and end points there. Makes more sense to me then to switch to a totally different program. To each his own.

Btw anyone using a program without infinite undos please exit thread right.

Well say theres a clip I wanna use on youtube but I want the first half (of a sentence) before the drop, the second half after the drop and then another sample from later in the clip later in the track. I open audacity, hit record then play the youtube clip recording all the audio. Then I close my browser, look at the long clip in audacity, find the bits I need, highlight each one individually quickly with the mouse and export them into a folder I know I can reach without having to go anywhere in my ableton browser. Then I just drag them accross into ableton and take it from there. I dunno how to record computer output straight into ableton and I wouldn't want to anyway because splitting up clips is incredibly difficult and time consuming. I don't like how ableton fucks with the timing etc when you record directly into it too, I prefer to have a nice neat finished sample ready to just drop in so it auto times it from the start into a nice neat box and doesn't dick me around.

Obviously drum hits etc I have on my computer already I just load into the drum rack and ableton is great for things like editing the volume envelope on a break to create a nice little cut up effect.

I've also never been able to get an accapella in time in ableton but have in reason which is supposed to be the worst DAW of them all for accapellas!! God knows why this is but it just is, I find as soon as I load audio into ableton every time I try to do something to it the program starts doing its warp shit all over the place and changing the speed or pitch or whatever it fancies willy nilly :s

What would the perfect DAW be like??