Dubstepforum.com

just checked slew. sounds exactly liek burial 2me. doesnt matter how well produced it is, i just dont c the point: burial already exists.

shanmbandito, u say that the general classifying of "ambient 2-steppy stuff" as just being burial copies means that this genre doesnt get the attention it deserves, but 4give me if i'm wrong in saying this but there was no ambient 2-steppy stuf until burial. he invented it. so anyone doing that genre IS likely to have copied him. of course everyone starts out copying something, and they could've brought soemthign new to the table as well, but on the evidence of the (only one) track i just checked, Slew hasnt, and R aint bringing enuf yet either...

Mico Viejo wrote:just checked slew. sounds exactly liek burial 2me. doesnt matter how well produced it is, i just dont c the point: burial already exists.

shanmbandito, u say that the general classifying of "ambient 2-steppy stuff" as just being burial copies means that this genre doesnt get the attention it deserves, but 4give me if i'm wrong in saying this but there was no ambient 2-steppy stuf until burial. he invented it. so anyone doing that genre IS likely to have copied him. of course everyone starts out copying something, and they could've brought soemthign new to the table as well, but on the evidence of the (only one) track i just checked, Slew hasnt, and R aint bringing enuf yet either...

by this logic, everybody's a copy of someone/some style, and therefore shouldn't be creating tunes

86 Position wrote:

Mico Viejo wrote:just checked slew. sounds exactly liek burial 2me. doesnt matter how well produced it is, i just dont c the point: burial already exists.

shanmbandito, u say that the general classifying of "ambient 2-steppy stuff" as just being burial copies means that this genre doesnt get the attention it deserves, but 4give me if i'm wrong in saying this but there was no ambient 2-steppy stuf until burial. he invented it. so anyone doing that genre IS likely to have copied him. of course everyone starts out copying something, and they could've brought soemthign new to the table as well, but on the evidence of the (only one) track i just checked, Slew hasnt, and R aint bringing enuf yet either...

by this logic, everybody's a copy of someone/some style, and therefore shouldn't be creating tunes

nope, sorry, thats not my logic at all. there are varying degrees of copying.

i personally would be embarassed to copy some one at this level. seriously, every time u play sum1 yr music they're gonn be "yeah, nice, but it does sound like a burial a lot". come on, have u no shame?

and u aint gonna get anywhere in the music industry doing it either. no music journalist is gonna be interested in reviewing it (what can they write about it, other than the obvious) and u'll just die a quiet death like the other million substandard copycat versions of more talented artists have done over the years

Mico Viejo wrote:

86 Position wrote:

Mico Viejo wrote:just checked slew. sounds exactly liek burial 2me. doesnt matter how well produced it is, i just dont c the point: burial already exists.

shanmbandito, u say that the general classifying of "ambient 2-steppy stuff" as just being burial copies means that this genre doesnt get the attention it deserves, but 4give me if i'm wrong in saying this but there was no ambient 2-steppy stuf until burial. he invented it. so anyone doing that genre IS likely to have copied him. of course everyone starts out copying something, and they could've brought soemthign new to the table as well, but on the evidence of the (only one) track i just checked, Slew hasnt, and R aint bringing enuf yet either...

by this logic, everybody's a copy of someone/some style, and therefore shouldn't be creating tunes

nope, sorry, thats not my logic at all. there are varying degrees of copying.

i personally would be embarassed to copy some one at this level. seriously, every time u play sum1 yr music they're gonn be "yeah, nice, but it does sound like a burial a lot". come on, have u no shame?

and u aint gonna get anywhere in the music industry doing it either. no music journalist is gonna be interested in reviewing it (what can they write about it, other than the obvious) and u'll just die a quiet death like the other million substandard copycat versions of more talented artists have done over the years

I partially see what you're saying, but still. I'd rather here somebody with a very similar sound to Burial rather than "metalstep" imitators...in the end I'd rather hear something original, period. But one will always find something that's vaguely similar to something else

But I notice a lot that people big up "metalstep"-sounding tunes when there's no shortage of that, and as soon as a "Burial clone" or someone vaguely similar comes along, people get up in arms. Sad, but that's what I've noticed

I'm not saying you prefer metalstep or whatever, it's not directed at you.

If people choose to make ambient 2-step tunes, that's on them. It may be authentic and genuine, maybe not. It's not their fault that journalists can't appreciate their shit for what it is in and of itself without pulling the "it sounds like Burial" card. If the media can't get past that, then there's a problem right there. The problem don't lie in the producers who make the tunes, it lies in narrow minded media and people who need some sort of reference before they can "understand" a tune.

Like people saying "Coki clones". same sort of thing.

that's just my thoughts on it.


EDIT: I'm thinking of hip-hop right now...different ball park, but same idea. Marley Marl, Easy Moe Bee, Pete Rock, RZA, Diamond D, Beatminerz, Premo...many more. Many of these boom-bap style producers are derivative of that...so do we clown them....no. The shit keeps going forward....the Madlibs, the Dillas, the 9th wonders - Black Milk....it progresses into these experimental/"wonky" types now. I suppose what I'm trying to get at is this: perhaps the "Burial sound" and those who choose to sound similar/identical to that, is something so fresh that it needs time to develop. Perhaps in another 10 years that whole strain of the genre will have a large variety of sounds that don't instantly conjure up images of Burial, but can be traced back to Burial.

I'm done ranting lol

this is one reason why i fear actually releasing anything i make to people. a lot of my stuff is influenced by producers i like and play a lot on my sets, including burial of course. how can anyone expect to get recognition if they get accused of copying someone else's songs, when really it's just influence?

please dont say metalstep .. this is part of the problem, yr only aiding it


carry on

Jolly Wailer wrote:please dont say metalstep .. this is part of the problem, yr only aiding it


carry on

hence why I threw quotes around it everytime I used it. suppose that isn't enough



"mettalic-ish-grinding-hard" dubstep

thats better

tbh I've heard burial-esque stuff and I could tell the difference between influence and copy

Mico Viejo wrote:

86 Position wrote:

Mico Viejo wrote:
nope, sorry, thats not my logic at all. there are varying degrees of copying.

Gotta agree with this...... There is a line, all be it a fine one, between being influenced by someone and biting their style. I think that all musicians or producers get into making music because they hear a particular artist or style that inspires them. So their initial productions at least will naturally gravitate towards that style.

The real creativity is taking that initial inspiring sound and adding your own personal touch to it and therefore pushing the sound on. If no one does anything new in a genre the sound stagnates and becomes boring. Ive seen this happen with metal, drum and bass, breaks etc

Hopefully dubstep carries enough diversity amoung its ranks of producers to ensure the sound never stagnates.... but time will tell.

Oh and having re read that first sentence I want to make it clear Im not calling R a biter. Lovin the tunes dude! Cant wait to see what you are producing in a year. Big up.

Peace

sorry peepzes. dis nubie gawn rant!!!

It's funny how this double standard works. the 900 billion rusko clones are fine, but start sounding like burial and you're a copycat.

oh, and we're all copycats that's what a genre is. It started with one person originally.

there are ways to take the sound in new directions. there are still unexplored corners of dubstep. the problem is getting to anything new takes a lot of work and in the days people brag about making a tune in an hour many feel bad about spending more than a few hours on a tune (people don't even dig for drum sounds anymore!!! find your own sounds people don't get them from places others' do) which breeds substandard productions.

I've heard people describe the music as "like sex" now think about those that brag about finishing a tune in 15 minutes. Premature Ejac.

It's what killed intricate jungle in favor of jump up and tech step.

It's what killed hip-hop. (although there are a few mentioned earlier that keep the good sound alive)

oh and sorry to be ranty. I'm still pretty new (here) so I guess I shouldn't be talking shit. but whatever, this topic get's me angry. I was on hip-hop boards before this and there's always someone explaining why your shit ain't hip-hop when you're trying new stuff.

and yeah, burial is good.

ghostsinsmoke wrote:sorry peepzes. dis nubie gawn rant!!!

It's funny how this double standard works. the 900 billion rusko clones are fine, but start sounding like burial and you're a copycat.

see yr wrong here.. don't understand how the dsf memes spread

there's no double standard - both are silly

Thanks for all the replys. I feel ownered to be a copycat of burial. .. why ? because i dont give a damn about 1 person thinks. Nuff people wholl listen it and can enjoy without thinking about burial.

PHASEten wrote: The real creativity is taking that initial inspiring sound and adding your own personal touch to it and therefore pushing the sound on.

something sum1 told me early on was one of the best bits of advice ive heard in all my time making music: "its ok biting sum1, as long as u dont just bite that person, u need to be copying sum1 else at the same time as well". i.e. its cool to copy burial, as long as you r also copying frank sinatra. that way sumthing new is born (tho i dont necessarily want to hear the result of that particular example)

and yeah, rusko clones r just as wak. but i think the main reason why burial copyists get jumped on so hard is cos its burial really has a strong personal identity, his sound is (or was) so unlike anything else out there that its just too obvious when ppl r biting

yeah, copying is the highest form of flattery (or whatever the phrase is), but its also the quickest way to make the very thing you idolise start to sound generic and unoriginal. this is the problem when sum1 comes up with a good idea: it then gets so rinsed by copyists that listening back in 10 years time the original will just sound boring, because all their innovations have now entered mainstream music and become cliches thru no fault of their own. victim of their own success in a way

Mico Viejo wrote:
and yeah, rusko clones r just as wak. but i think the main reason why burial copyists get jumped on so hard is cos its burial really has a strong personal identity, his sound is (or was) so unlike anything else out there that its just too obvious when ppl r biting

nail on the head.

I've just got a chip on my shoulder... I've been using sampled outdoor sounds and vinyl crackles since I first got a sampler in 96. now I can't make anything dirty (even w/o the 2 step drums) without it being "burial's aesthetic".

although before that if you sampled outside you were in "BOC aesthetic" territory.

tbh its the drums that make it..



but yeah it's too late now anyway o well lol

R wrote:Surprise!

For all the folks who missed or wanna experience my liveset again.

here's the link :

http://www.sendspace.com/file/4n85q4

Enjoy

Thanks man, it's on the download.

ghostsinsmoke wrote:I've been using sampled outdoor sounds and vinyl crackles since I first got a sampler in 96. now I can't make anything dirty (even w/o the 2 step drums) without it being "burial's aesthetic".

yeah, i can imagine that must b pretty annoying. just goes to show, if u r onto something good, u got 2 establish it as "yours" asap cos its only a matter of time b4 sum1 else has the same idea...

Mico Viejo wrote:

ghostsinsmoke wrote:I've been using sampled outdoor sounds and vinyl crackles since I first got a sampler in 96. now I can't make anything dirty (even w/o the 2 step drums) without it being "burial's aesthetic".

yeah, i can imagine that must b pretty annoying. just goes to show, if u r onto something good, u got 2 establish it as "yours" asap cos its only a matter of time b4 sum1 else has the same idea...

word. that's why I stopped lurkin' almost finished something new.

sorry for the momentary thread hijack, op.

i make ambient dubstep like burial... hope u like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6PObsI3 ... annel_page