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pkay wrote: let's not be naive here... this situation went bad on both sides. It's on Israel to be the bigger group because they are a formal government.... but if this had happened in any other country where military members were being assaulted the odds of it ending much differently are slim.

They could have definitely found SOME way to subdue them without killing anyone.

The whole thing with the pistol wrestled away from a soldier, though, I could understand how that might have taken things to a deadly level for everyone. Definitely a stupid move on the part of whoever did it, I mean, there's a good chance they would have been either sent back to their countries or possibly arrested, but fuck...

IF all that is even true, that is.

Those people knew exactly how reckless it was to break a trade embargo
How many arms are smuggled under the guise of 'international aid'

It's the fact things have to be done this way which is where the real problem lies.

I suppose it's what will happen when you've got terrorists acting like a government vs. a government that acts like terrorists

Hide_One wrote:terrorists acting like a government vs. a government that acts like terrorists

Too true

feral witchchild wrote:

pkay wrote: let's not be naive here... this situation went bad on both sides. It's on Israel to be the bigger group because they are a formal government.... but if this had happened in any other country where military members were being assaulted the odds of it ending much differently are slim.

They could have definitely found SOME way to subdue them without killing anyone.

The whole thing with the pistol wrestled away from a soldier, though, I could understand how that might have taken things to a deadly level for everyone. Definitely a stupid move on the part of whoever did it, I mean, there's a good chance they would have been either sent back to their countries or possibly arrested, but fuck...

IF all that is even true, that is.

IF it's true, though shall we think about this for a second.


Israel is one of the heavist armed and militarised states on Earth, they recieve over 1/3 of the USA's foreign aid budget being spent on arms alone.


The soldiers that boarded the ships are in the elite Commando unit called Shayetet 13. There are the main Special Forces unit in Israel. These people are hard-arse bastards who have been battle-hardened in some pretty horrific battles, including the al-Aqsa Intifada, both Lebanon wars and the raid of Beirut in 1973 to capture members of the Black September gang (from the film Munich).


To think that a bunch of civilians were able to grab hold of them as they landed on a deck and throw an elite commando over-board whilst capturing the weapons of another is, quite frankly, bullshit.

tr0tsky wrote:

feral witchchild wrote:

pkay wrote: let's not be naive here... this situation went bad on both sides. It's on Israel to be the bigger group because they are a formal government.... but if this had happened in any other country where military members were being assaulted the odds of it ending much differently are slim.

They could have definitely found SOME way to subdue them without killing anyone.

The whole thing with the pistol wrestled away from a soldier, though, I could understand how that might have taken things to a deadly level for everyone. Definitely a stupid move on the part of whoever did it, I mean, there's a good chance they would have been either sent back to their countries or possibly arrested, but fuck...

IF all that is even true, that is.

IF it's true, though shall we think about this for a second.


Israel is one of the heavist armed and militarised states on Earth, they recieve over 1/3 of the USA's foreign aid budget being spent on arms alone.


The soldiers that boarded the ships are in the elite Commando unit called Shayetet 13. There are the main Special Forces unit in Israel. These people are hard-arse bastards who have been battle-hardened in some pretty horrific battles, including the al-Aqsa Intifada, both Lebanon wars and the raid of Beirut in 1973 to capture members of the Black September gang (from the film Munich).


To think that a bunch of civilians were able to grab hold of them as they landed on a deck and throw an elite commando over-board whilst capturing the weapons of another is, quite frankly, bullshit.

I'm pretty sure we see one of them being thrown overboard? In any case the only video evidence shows the Israelis open fire with no evidence to suggest they were not the first to do so.

Hide_One wrote:Those people knew exactly how reckless it was to break a trade embargo
How many arms are smuggled under the guise of 'international aid'

It's the fact things have to be done this way which is where the real problem lies.

I suppose it's what will happen when you've got terrorists acting like a government vs. a government that acts like terrorists

Problem though is that the trade embargo had not been broken at the point in time when the ship was attacked. They can't even fall back on that justification.

If it weren't for the fact that the ship was essentially a private ship, as opposed to one belonging to a nation, it would have been tantamount to declaring war.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06 ... -info-war/

Let me get this straight: The Israelis invaded a civilian ship in international waters armed with paintball guns but they still managed to kill nine people? Did I miss something?

who's saying they had paintball guns?
i just saw bbc news showing footage of them with a "compact uzi"

kay wrote:Problem though is that the trade embargo had not been broken at the point in time when the ship was attacked. They can't even fall back on that justification.

hey, it was a preemptive strike, ok ? imagine what could have happened if that food got in the wrong hands ...

the best thing about this whole situation is that if israel had just had a bit of patience and waited til the boats entered israeli waters, they wouldn't have this shitstorm over their heads, fucking idiots

hackman wrote:who's saying they had paintball guns?
i just saw bbc news showing footage of them with a "compact uzi"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100601/ts_ ... la_tactics

BLAHBLAHJAH wrote: (Just a brutally crude message to say I don't get why people are fixated on problems in random places of the world rather than doing anything locally, even just for the yoof)

You act as if outrage about an international incident AND doing work in our own communities is mutually exclusive. What, you can't multitask?

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Emergency National Demonstration Saturday 5th June

The world has looked on aghast as more and more details emerge of the violent attack by the Israeli Government on the unarmed flotilla of boats carrying essential medical supplies to the besieged people of Gaza. Tens of people have been killed and scores more injured.

Those who survived the brutal attack have been illegally imprisoned, without access to legal representatives.

To show our outrage at the brutal and illegal actions of the Israeli Government, PSC along with CND, Stop the War, British Muslim Initiative and Viva Palestina have called an emergency demonstration on Saturday 5th June.

The march will start from Downing Street at 1.30 pm and head to the Israeli Embassy in Kensington where there will be a rally.

We are asking all members and supporters to come to this demonstration and show the Israeli Government that the people of UK will not tolerate their brutality any longer.


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protest doesn't work

tr0tsky wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Emergency National Demonstration Saturday 5th June

The world has looked on aghast as more and more details emerge of the violent attack by the Israeli Government on the unarmed flotilla of boats carrying essential medical supplies to the besieged people of Gaza. Tens of people have been killed and scores more injured.

Those who survived the brutal attack have been illegally imprisoned, without access to legal representatives.

To show our outrage at the brutal and illegal actions of the Israeli Government, PSC along with CND, Stop the War, British Muslim Initiative and Viva Palestina have called an emergency demonstration on Saturday 5th June.

The march will start from Downing Street at 1.30 pm and head to the Israeli Embassy in Kensington where there will be a rally.

We are asking all members and supporters to come to this demonstration and show the Israeli Government that the people of UK will not tolerate their brutality any longer.


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You got a web link or anything for that? I'll Facebook and Twitter the bollocks off it.

1.30 seems late enough to scrape the mucus off my boat partied brain and do the honourable thing.

magma wrote:

tr0tsky wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Emergency National Demonstration Saturday 5th June

The world has looked on aghast as more and more details emerge of the violent attack by the Israeli Government on the unarmed flotilla of boats carrying essential medical supplies to the besieged people of Gaza. Tens of people have been killed and scores more injured.

Those who survived the brutal attack have been illegally imprisoned, without access to legal representatives.

To show our outrage at the brutal and illegal actions of the Israeli Government, PSC along with CND, Stop the War, British Muslim Initiative and Viva Palestina have called an emergency demonstration on Saturday 5th June.

The march will start from Downing Street at 1.30 pm and head to the Israeli Embassy in Kensington where there will be a rally.

We are asking all members and supporters to come to this demonstration and show the Israeli Government that the people of UK will not tolerate their brutality any longer.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You got a web link or anything for that? I'll Facebook and Twitter the bollocks off it.

1.30 seems late enough to scrape the mucus off my boat partied brain and do the honourable thing.

http://palestinecampaign.org/images/web ... eaflet.jpg


Give me a shout if you're gonna make it.

hackman wrote:protest doesn't work

Your mother doesn't work.

I'd come down but would probably end up throwing a rock at the embassy.

tr0tsky wrote:

hackman wrote:protest doesn't work

Your mother doesn't work.

EH HUH
you really think israel's going to listen to you? when they don't even listen to world leaders?