Dubstepforum.com

Jupiter H8 wrote:i just personally think there aren't enough musical minds working in dubstep

Wow.

jolly wailer wrote:

jayladders wrote:its just interesting to think about the question, has dubstep become a remix genre?

jayladders wrote:REAL dubstep isn't a cheesey remix added to an ep/album/bside single just to fill in the slots, real dubstep is as we know it, coki, mala, loefah, skream, cotti, cluekid etc. just wondering what you guys have to say about this.

you answer yr own question in the OP

whats the point of this thread then god?

i didnt ask a fuckin question cos i didnt know the answer myself wiseman, i asked to see what other people thought of the situation..

dubstep had remixes cracking since i can remember and u cant blame it who wouldnt want to hear a step remix of certain songs

jolly wailer wrote:

jayladders wrote:

kultron wrote:^


@ jupiter h8 --- so if dubstep is formulaic to you and the "good stuff died a few years back" why did you come to join this worldwide dubstep hub (now bigger than ever) so late in 2010?


so much great perspective coming from the newer members these days

it's not so much *the good stuff*. more the fact that nothing particularly new has been done since those blueprint tunes were made. there are very few dubstep SONGS basically. Magnetic Man is the first musically complete effort so far, but it's very basic stuff. Reminds me of when rave tried to get musically relavent in the early 90's and it just didn't happen. You had stuff like Baby D *Let Me Be Your Fantasy*. Cute record, but really musically naiive stuff compared to what was happening at the time in Seattle and in the indie scene. Dubstep feels very musically naiive right now. Retarded basically. The people making it don't seem to have any song writing ability. If people want it to go anywhere other than instantly disposable records for a club, they need to get into thier song writing.

nice reply H8 .. that is something to discuss then


there are more people taking it into forward directions tho besides magnetic man

ruckspin for instance does a live thing .. there's king midas sound .. dokkebi Q .. the stuff L.V. does with dandelion

jayladders wrote:REAL dubstep isn't a cheesey remix added to an ep/album/bside single just to fill in the slots, real dubstep is as we know it, coki, mala, loefah, skream, cotti, cluekid etc. just wondering what you guys have to say about this.

said it yourself mate. Fu k trends, haters and hype

dopocc wrote:

jayladders wrote:REAL dubstep isn't a cheesey remix added to an ep/album/bside single just to fill in the slots, real dubstep is as we know it, coki, mala, loefah, skream, cotti, cluekid etc. just wondering what you guys have to say about this.

said it yourself mate. Fu k trends, haters and hype

yeh tru man. i made this thread just to see what people thought but yeh, fuck hatas.

Jupiter H8 wrote:Dubstep feels very musically naiive right now. Retarded basically. The people making it don't seem to have any song writing ability. If people want it to go anywhere other than instantly disposable records for a club, they need to get into thier song writing.

listen to the antisocial show, musical ability pouring out of every orifice.

If you think every dubstep tune is a disposable club banger youre clearly not listening to a very broad spectrum of it.

And how do you explain early DMZs being sold in excess of a hundred pounds?

I'm not even going to ask how you think its retarded.

HRKRT wrote:

Jupiter H8 wrote:Dubstep feels very musically naiive right now. Retarded basically. The people making it don't seem to have any song writing ability. If people want it to go anywhere other than instantly disposable records for a club, they need to get into thier song writing.

listen to the antisocial show, musical ability pouring out of every orifice.

If you think every dubstep tune is a disposable club banger youre clearly not listening to a very broad spectrum of it.

And how do you explain early DMZs being sold in excess of a hundred pounds?

I'm not even going to ask how you think its retarded.

well, those early records are culturally important records. something very new and very different happened in 2004 in Leeds and Croyden that spawned hundreds of imitators. A cultural Meme got started. THose early records reprasent the original dubstep Meme. They are important. But *another* fucking Caspa wobbler that sounds like a thousand other 140bpm kick-snare wobble records is not important and is diposable; even tho it might sound *exactly* the same as Tempa 008 or DMZ 001 or whatever, it has absolutely zero cultural relavence, as it's essentially (artisically speaking) a counterfeit. It's a clone of a once very original idea.

as for how i think it's slightly retarded, especialy when compared to the music made by bands such as Friendly Fires, MGMT, Arcade Fire, etc. i don't think i need to explain myself, it should be obvious. The composition in Dubstep tracks just isn't there. The textures are, and the edits are really neat, but the overal written structure of a dubstep track is just piss-fucking-poor compared to their contemporaies. They're just made to be mixed for the most part, so from the word GO they don't stand up as records in their own right. They might have a cheeky sample or vocal phrase to distinguish one track from the next, but that'll be about it. (See Nero for an example of incredibly generic dancefloor fodder disguised as an actual song with a one-word vocal snippet. It just doesn't fool people who are actually into thier music).

People really under estimate the importance of song writing in this corner of music, and just use the fact that *it works in a club* or *it's for a DJ set* as an excuse to hide the fact that they just can't actually write songs. If this thing is to go anywhere, and go the distance like hip-hop, house, and even the big daddy of them all: Rock, it desperately needs to start crafting memorable stand-out songs.

this ain't a remix it's a fiend's fix - R Kelly

sorry this is stale though. people (in the UK at least) are so concerned about dubstep's image and ooooo will it get too popular. lots of remixes are good (i like In For The Kill and Alejandro so what) and there are lots of original artists too (as mentioned in OP, as well as Starkey, Guido, Mount Kimbie, etc., all with quality full-length albums). why do people give a shit about the image? i'm from NYC and i still have to explain dubstep to most people so it's not a concern of mine.

Jupiter H8 wrote: as for how i think it's slightly retarded, especialy when compared to the music made by bands such as Friendly Fires, MGMT, Arcade Fire, etc. i don't think i need to explain myself, it should be obvious. The composition in Dubstep tracks just isn't there.
People really under estimate the importance of song writing in this corner of music, and just use the fact that *it works in a club* or *it's for a DJ set* as an excuse to hide the fact that they just can't actually write songs. If this thing is to go anywhere, and go the distance like hip-hop, house, and even the big daddy of them all: Rock, it desperately needs to start crafting memorable stand-out songs.

the structure and composition of club music is essentially different from rock, which isn't an excuse to be repetitive and unoriginal, but you can't use the same standard as the great hipster pioneers you've cited. there are plenty of artists that push the boundaries of electronic music competition (check out Rudi Zygadlo if you like proper song-writing). don't look to Nero as the gold standard.

sofa_king wrote:

Jupiter H8 wrote: as for how i think it's slightly retarded, especialy when compared to the music made by bands such as Friendly Fires, MGMT, Arcade Fire, etc. i don't think i need to explain myself, it should be obvious. The composition in Dubstep tracks just isn't there.
People really under estimate the importance of song writing in this corner of music, and just use the fact that *it works in a club* or *it's for a DJ set* as an excuse to hide the fact that they just can't actually write songs. If this thing is to go anywhere, and go the distance like hip-hop, house, and even the big daddy of them all: Rock, it desperately needs to start crafting memorable stand-out songs.

the structure and composition of club music is essentially different from rock, which isn't an excuse to be repetitive and unoriginal, but you can't use the same standard as the great hipster pioneers you've cited. there are plenty of artists that push the boundaries of electronic music competition (check out Rudi Zygadlo if you like proper song-writing). don't look to Nero as the gold standard.

don't really know where *hipster* comes into anything. dubstep is kinda seen as one big hipster band anyway these days altho one that isn't taken as being particularly musically serious. I think it wants to be taken seriously tho, and the only way this is going to happen is if dubstep producers take on rock and pop at its own game, and fucking murk it. i do think it's perfectly capable of doing this... i just don't think the current crop of producers are capable of doing this (back to my original statement *i don't thi9nk there enough genuinely musical minds working in dubstep today* )

Jupiter H8 wrote:i just personally think there aren't enough musical minds working in dubstep for it to be sustainable. ultimately, it's nothing more than a dance-floor formular, and one that got capitalised on very quickly, so as to turn it into a pardoy of itself. basically, real dubstep died a good few years ago now, and the guys that made the first wave of tunes that set the template (releases on labels like Tempa, Hotflush etc from 2004-2007) probably don't have the musical or compositional ability to really push it into reaches of quality timeless music. Magnetic Man is as close as it's come, but even so it doesn't feel like it justifies dubstep as *music proper*.

I thought i'd seen it all on this forum, but that there is a generation defining statement

So James Blake, Mount Kimbie, Untold, Scuba, Ramadanman, Pangaea, Martyn, Zomby, Brackles, Joy Orbison, VVV, Milyoo, Roof Light, Duncan Powell, Kyle Hall, Floating Points, SBTRKT, Starkey, Ruckspin...musically they are 'retarded' right? Don't have any song writing ability or musicianship skills yer? Not enough genuinely musical minds, serious???

I'd politely suggest you go and seek out better 'dubstep' than whatever it is you currently choose to listen to, and i hate to user this term, but really - "LOL" at the comment about Magnetic Man. Everything i've heard from them is the eptiome of formulaic dance-floor tunage that you are seemingly complaining about.

Jupiter H8 wrote:

HRKRT wrote:

Jupiter H8 wrote:Dubstep feels very musically naiive right now. Retarded basically. The people making it don't seem to have any song writing ability. If people want it to go anywhere other than instantly disposable records for a club, they need to get into thier song writing.

listen to the antisocial show, musical ability pouring out of every orifice.

If you think every dubstep tune is a disposable club banger youre clearly not listening to a very broad spectrum of it.

And how do you explain early DMZs being sold in excess of a hundred pounds?

I'm not even going to ask how you think its retarded.

well, those early records are culturally important records. something very new and very different happened in 2004 in Leeds and Croyden that spawned hundreds of imitators. A cultural Meme got started. THose early records reprasent the original dubstep Meme. They are important. But *another* fucking Caspa wobbler that sounds like a thousand other 140bpm kick-snare wobble records is not important and is diposable; even tho it might sound *exactly* the same as Tempa 008 or DMZ 001 or whatever, it has absolutely zero cultural relavence, as it's essentially (artisically speaking) a counterfeit. It's a clone of a once very original idea.

as for how i think it's slightly retarded, especialy when compared to the music made by bands such as Friendly Fires, MGMT, Arcade Fire, etc. i don't think i need to explain myself, it should be obvious. The composition in Dubstep tracks just isn't there. The textures are, and the edits are really neat, but the overal written structure of a dubstep track is just piss-fucking-poor compared to their contemporaies. They're just made to be mixed for the most part, so from the word GO they don't stand up as records in their own right. They might have a cheeky sample or vocal phrase to distinguish one track from the next, but that'll be about it. (See Nero for an example of incredibly generic dancefloor fodder disguised as an actual song with a one-word vocal snippet. It just doesn't fool people who are actually into thier music).

People really under estimate the importance of song writing in this corner of music, and just use the fact that *it works in a club* or *it's for a DJ set* as an excuse to hide the fact that they just can't actually write songs. If this thing is to go anywhere, and go the distance like hip-hop, house, and even the big daddy of them all: Rock, it desperately needs to start crafting memorable stand-out songs.

Once again; you need to diversify the dubstep you are listening to.

Stop looking to Nero as an example of generic dubstep, and start looking for artists who are doing something different. There are artists who are not using 140, not using a simple kick snare pattern, and who are using complex production skills that put MGMT and Friendly fires to shame. Even within 140, there are tonnes of artists out there doing amazing stuff; but you clearly havent listened to them if you are making this kind of statement.

Hate to be a downer here but Jupiter H8 is a prick.

kingthing wrote:

Jupiter H8 wrote:i just personally think there aren't enough musical minds working in dubstep for it to be sustainable. ultimately, it's nothing more than a dance-floor formular, and one that got capitalised on very quickly, so as to turn it into a pardoy of itself. basically, real dubstep died a good few years ago now, and the guys that made the first wave of tunes that set the template (releases on labels like Tempa, Hotflush etc from 2004-2007) probably don't have the musical or compositional ability to really push it into reaches of quality timeless music. Magnetic Man is as close as it's come, but even so it doesn't feel like it justifies dubstep as *music proper*.

I thought i'd seen it all on this forum, but that there is a generation defining statement

So James Blake, Mount Kimbie, Untold, Scuba, Ramadanman, Pangaea, Martyn, Zomby, Brackles, Joy Orbison, VVV, Milyoo, Roof Light, Duncan Powell, Kyle Hall, Floating Points, SBTRKT, Starkey, Ruckspin...musically they are 'retarded' right? Don't have any song writing ability or musicianship skills yer? Not enough genuinely musical minds, serious???

I'd politely suggest you go and seek out better 'dubstep' than whatever it is you currently choose to listen to, and i hate to user this term, but really - "LOL" at the comment about Magnetic Man. Everything i've heard from them is the eptiome of formulaic dance-floor tunage that you are seemingly complaining about.

i really want this music to establish itself in the popular consciousness for the long haul, and for it to be done in an intelligent way. those guys you mentioned are only fighting half the batle. it's intelligent stuff for sure, but it's just not gonna penetrate deep into the hearts and minds of people that grew up with pop and rock (which to be fair, is most people). i wouldn't want these guys to dumb it down or compromise in any way, i just want them use the mysterious tricks of the trade employed by songwriters to really validate the great work that they do for all to hear. I guess if you never had this thought about a particular sound of music: *why doesn't everyone GET this?* then you won't undersand where i'm coming from.


edit: i'm an old tnuc basically. i watched early Uk hardcore really sink it's teeth into this country's cultural heritage via some really subversive records. Charly, Ebeneezer GoodE, which paved the way for some seriously smart music reaching loads of people off the back of it (Orbital, Leftfeild, CHemical Brothers etc.) and saw it again in the late 90's with UK techno via Born Slippy, and more recently with Grime with Dizzee and Plan B. I want it for UK dubstep. It doesn't feel like it's happened yet, and it doesn't seem like it's gonna happen.

@Jupiter H8

Why the fuck did you sign up to this forum?

I lolled at everyone who heard a couple of dubstep tunes since the explosion and who now think they're in a position to be making sweeping statements about dubstep as a whole. Have you ever heard Shackleton? Burial? Mala? Martyn? Quest? There's so many more - timeless music has already come out of this movement. Get yourself to a proper dance and tell me otherwise!

Jupiter H8 wrote:i really want this music to establish itself in the popular consciousness for the long haul, and for it to be done in an intelligent way. those guys you mentioned are only fighting half the batle. it's intelligent stuff for sure, but it's just not gonna penetrate deep into the hearts and minds of people that grew up with pop and rock (which to be fair, is most people). i wouldn't want these guys to dumb it down or compromise in any way, i just want them use the mysterious tricks of the trade employed by songwriters to really validate the great work that they do for all to hear. I guess if you never had this thought about a particular sound of music: *why doesn't everyone GET this?* then you won't undersand where i'm coming from.


edit: i'm an old tnuc basically. i watched early Uk hardcore really sink it's teeth into this country's cultural heritage via some really subversive records. Charly, Ebeneezer GoodE, which paved the way for some seriously smart music reaching loads of people off the back of it (Orbital, Leftfeild, CHemical Brothers etc.) and saw it again in the late 90's with UK techno via Born Slippy, and more recently with Grime with Dizzee and Plan B. I want it for UK dubstep. It doesn't feel like it's happened yet, and it doesn't seem like it's gonna happen.

Ah i see, so originally what you actually should've said is - 'why is the side of dubstep thats devoid of any musicality, song-writing ability, and only really geared up to make young kids mosh at a night out...devoid of any musicality, song-writing ability, and only really geared up to make young kids mosh at a night out?'

I think you need to ask yourself some questions here:

a) Have you really allowed youself time to explore the genre as a whole before making these sweeping statements? i.e you've referred to Nero, and then acted suprised/disappointed that they have no discernable 'song-writing' ability. If people were coming into the dubstep world looking for those traits, they certainly wouldn't head for Nero (no disrespect to Nero)

b) What do you class as 'timeless' exactly? Magnetic Man you say?!? We differ there for sure

c) Why don't bands such as MGMT, Friendly Fires etc make dancefloor killing bangers rather than 'songs', and vice versa..? (the answer is in the question)

d) Why do you want the general public to 'get' it? Seems to me that you are advocating the further commercialisation of Dubstep, which implies to me that you just want to hear some dubstep pop songs rather than actual, you know, dubstep. But then you say you wouldnt want the artists to dumb it down or compromise in any way, which in actual fact would be a preceding factor to the general public 'accepting' it - because - meaning no offense at all to the general public - they can't handle anything that isn't dumbed down due to the fact that the every day Joe is ever so slightly retarded - musically at least. You only have to listen to a commercial radio station for 5 minutes to understand this. For people who's bread and butter is Pop music, intelligence doesn't factor in as a requirement for what they want to listen to. They just want nice tunes with catchy melodies that they can all sing along to when they're in the taxi home from their night out in Oceana. Does that make sense?

But really though, i just think you need to listen to some very, VERY different stuff, because everything that you are seemingly craving - musically - is already out there. You've either just missed it or chose to ignore it. Dubstep as a sound/genre/scene/whatever has progressed perfectly well as it is. Don't worry about what other people think, its music for christ's sake - the one subective freedom we have left in this insanely oppressive world. If you like it, you like it - thats all that should matter to you

@jupiterH8

im defintely a hater. and i really hate MGMT, the animal collective and all your other pisshit poster bands. they don't do anything new, and using a handful of chords on the guitar does not make you musical.

there is plenty of good stuff still coming out. why dont you root around a bit instead of complaining?

more over..the fact that you think all these indie bands are clever and that dubstep has completely fallen off indicates that you spend more time and energy reading reviews than you do listening to music. fix up.