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pkay wrote:it's more like "you'll have to wait 3 months.... but if you didn't spend money on stupid shit like rims for your car, cable television, internet porn, a healthy coke habit, $100 in video games monthly, eating out 4 nights a week, and otherworthless shit you don't need odds are you would have enough money to pay for your car to get fixed.

most americans don't have a healthcare problem. They have a budgeting problem.

Yeah? You know this how?

borrowed wrote:

pkay wrote:it's more like "you'll have to wait 3 months.... but if you didn't spend money on stupid shit like rims for your car, cable television, internet porn, a healthy coke habit, $100 in video games monthly, eating out 4 nights a week, and otherworthless shit you don't need odds are you would have enough money to pay for your car to get fixed.

most americans don't have a healthcare problem. They have a budgeting problem.

Yeah? You know this how?

Because I live in the USA and know how irresponsible the average american is

collige wrote:$7.25/hour is the federal minimum for people who don't make tips, a few states have it higher.

Please dont tell me they get paid less if theres tip involed

TSH-Tim wrote:

collige wrote:$7.25/hour is the federal minimum for people who don't make tips, a few states have it higher.

Please dont tell me they get paid less if theres tip involed

Yeah, they do. The law states that If you work a job that regularly receives tips such as delivery or waiting they can pay you less than minimum wage.

They have to pay tipped employees $2.13 an hour if their tips will bring them to at least minimum wage which they usually do. I know waiters at decent restaurants who can make $20 an hour on good nights.

If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

pkay wrote:it's more like "you'll have to wait 3 months.... but if you didn't spend money on stupid shit like rims for your car, cable television, internet porn, a healthy coke habit, $100 in video games monthly, eating out 4 nights a week, and otherworthless shit you don't need odds are you would have enough money to pay for your car to get fixed.

most americans don't have a healthcare problem. They have a budgeting problem.

... The rest of us can get one of jobs the richest country on the face of the earth provides.

This is so fucking stupid, I'd just like to say this is so fucking stupid.

pkay wrote:

borrowed wrote:

pkay wrote:it's more like "you'll have to wait 3 months.... but if you didn't spend money on stupid shit like rims for your car, cable television, internet porn, a healthy coke habit, $100 in video games monthly, eating out 4 nights a week, and otherworthless shit you don't need odds are you would have enough money to pay for your car to get fixed.

most americans don't have a healthcare problem. They have a budgeting problem.

Yeah? You know this how?

Because I live in the USA and know how irresponsible the average american is

What an unbiased, scientific way of looking at things.

Look Americans, just stop eating donuts and pizza.

borrowed wrote:

pkay wrote:

borrowed wrote:

pkay wrote:it's more like "you'll have to wait 3 months.... but if you didn't spend money on stupid shit like rims for your car, cable television, internet porn, a healthy coke habit, $100 in video games monthly, eating out 4 nights a week, and otherworthless shit you don't need odds are you would have enough money to pay for your car to get fixed.

most americans don't have a healthcare problem. They have a budgeting problem.

Yeah? You know this how?

Because I live in the USA and know how irresponsible the average american is

What an unbiased, scientific way of looking at things.

Are you denying americans are financially irresponsible? Please explain how americans are financially responsible

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=average+debt+per+american

you can talk shit and say I'm wrong but please explain your counterpoint.

First off any credit card debt that can't be paid off withing 90 days is irresponsible for any number of reasons, but having credit card debt while the average american has the products and services I listed earlier is negligent to no end. We pay as much in interest as we do in principal as a nation because we don't understand fundamental economics.

since your google is apparently broken, click the link above and try to superficially understand how utterly fucking stupid our country is with money

pkay wrote:The problem with the world today is that everyone wants to live rich and feels they are entitled to the luxuries of being rich.

No, the problem with the world is that we live in a system which seriously overvalues the work of some while seriously undervaluing the work of others. Capitalism necessarily created illegitimate riches for some by depriving the majority who are creating the wealth in the first place - wealth is created at the point of production, it isn't numbers on a screen. Hence it is only just and right to level the playing field, which some liberal democracies attempt to do (despite liberalism completely failing to grasp why it is just and right beyond a moralistic or purely instrumental argument). Your mistake is to presume that there are individuals who deserve to be many times richer than the rest of us who also deserve never to worry about their health while the rest of us do.

u r all qunts

the acid never lies wrote:

pkay wrote:The problem with the world today is that everyone wants to live rich and feels they are entitled to the luxuries of being rich.

No, the problem with the world is that we live in a system which seriously overvalues the work of some while seriously undervaluing the work of others. Capitalism necessarily created illegitimate riches for some by depriving the majority who are creating the wealth in the first place - wealth is created at the point of production, it isn't numbers on a screen. Hence it is only just and right to level the playing field, which some liberal democracies attempt to do (despite liberalism completely failing to grasp why it is just and right beyond a moralistic or purely instrumental argument). Your mistake is to presume that there are individuals who deserve to be many times richer than the rest of us who also deserve never to worry about their health while the rest of us do.

I think I have to agree with that. Wealth and reward should probably be related to (expended energy/unit of time) as opposed to arbitrarily perceived/assigned value.

kay wrote: I think I have to agree with that. Wealth and reward should probably be related to (expended energy/unit of time) as opposed to arbitrarily perceived/assigned value.

So you think the Janitor who dropped out of high school, has no attainable skill set, and has his job only because he qualifies for nothing else deserves to make as much as bill gates who became the riches man on earth out of a once in a century innovation that changed mankind?


I'm sure the janitor works very very hard but his skill set is very common and attainable by most every human being. I don't think he should be rewarded on the same level as someone who literally changed humanity.


I recognize those are the extremes but lets take id down a notch. At my work does the quality assurance person deserve to make as much as a concept artist? I could train anyone to do the QA job who is familiar with computers, however artistic talent is a skill far more valuable to our companies product and much harder to find. Both jobs work hard, but one worker has a skill that is more valuable, harder to find, and their pay is reflected based on skill level and value to the company

btw I'm not equating skill to healthcare.... we've drifted well off the original subject

cyberneticghost wrote:

TSH-Tim wrote:

collige wrote:$7.25/hour is the federal minimum for people who don't make tips, a few states have it higher.

Please dont tell me they get paid less if theres tip involed

Yeah, they do. The law states that If you work a job that regularly receives tips such as delivery or waiting they can pay you less than minimum wage.

They have to pay tipped employees $2.13 an hour if their tips will bring them to at least minimum wage which they usually do. I know waiters at decent restaurants who can make $20 an hour on good nights.

If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

Thats crazy !

pkay wrote:

kay wrote: I think I have to agree with that. Wealth and reward should probably be related to (expended energy/unit of time) as opposed to arbitrarily perceived/assigned value.

So you think the Janitor who dropped out of high school, has no attainable skill set, and has his job only because he qualifies for nothing else deserves to make as much as bill gates who became the riches man on earth out of a once in a century innovation that changed mankind?


I'm sure the janitor works very very hard but his skill set is very common and attainable by most every human being. I don't think he should be rewarded on the same level as someone who literally changed humanity.

no, i don't think he should have the same income as bill gates.
do i think he should get access to the same healthcare without significantly and detrimentally altering his quality of life? yes.

the acid never lies wrote:wealth is created at the point of production

Wait, are you saying that robots should have all the money?

nowaysj wrote:

the acid never lies wrote:wealth is created at the point of production

Wait, are you saying that robots should have all the money?

or asian sweatshops?

belalala wrote:no, i don't think he should have the same income as bill gates.
do i think he should get access to the same healthcare without significantly and detrimentally altering his quality of life? yes.

THANK YOU!! you were bang on!

does a person who makes millions of dollars deserve to get better hospital treatment than a homeless person?? Is their life worth more because of their accumulation of wealth?? NO!!!!!

All we want as world citizens is equal treatment, no matter what your past is,
nobody in this world should be allowed more rights because of who they are!

ONE LOVE! KOTAHI AROHA!

!!chea

Sirius wrote:

belalala wrote:no, i don't think he should have the same income as bill gates.
do i think he should get access to the same healthcare without significantly and detrimentally altering his quality of life? yes.

THANK YOU!! you were bang on!

does a person who makes millions of dollars deserve to get better hospital treatment than a homeless person?? Is their life worth more because of their accumulation of wealth?? NO!!!!!

All we want as world citizens is equal treatment, no matter what your past is,
nobody in this world should be allowed more rights because of who they are!

ONE LOVE! KOTAHI AROHA!

!!chea

I'm all for that but in order for that to happen we have to give up certain things. We can't continue to be wasteful glutinous pigs. We need to be financially responsible, help things out by not doing things that are counterproductive.

The problem is you and I may be willing to sacrifice for the betterment of humanity, but the vast majority of people are not. We need to fundamentally change how we act if we want to enable ourselves to provide these services.

We can't blow money as a society on stupid shit. We can't spend ridiculous amounts on oil. We can't waste money on fruitless wars. We can't let our politicians spend money on special interest groups. We can't blow money on wants before we take care of our needs. Health care needs to take priority over everything else on both a national and personal level. Healthcare doesn't just fall out of the sky. We have to prioritize it and demand our countries do the same. We can't just say it should be done without a plan to make it happen.

We can identify the problem, if we don't develop a fiscal solution it means nothing.