There's still ways to emulate the "live" or "innacurate" sonic manifestations of hardware. there's a whole field of discussion about the subject.. but here's a couple ideas :
THEY ARE MY OPINION, IM OFTEN WRONG, but here :
- hardware samplers are often praised for their uber tight sequencers (when they have one). and it has to do with their reputation of having good rythms.. but to me there's the sequencer, and the actual soundwave. they have randomness in their sound..
- try to modulate the length of a kick... like the decay/sustain, but in an extremely subtle way, it has to be "subconsciously perceivable" only. and fast modulate it.. so its almost random (i do that in kontakt).
-try to modulate the attack even more slightly by modulating the actual attack, or a transient designer's "strenght/amount"... but really slightly...
honestly, these two things, along with proper eq and saturation.. allow me to get results incredibly close to my fav hardware sampler.
if ur pitching 808s. try treating them by split frequencies.
in kontakt u just set it once and then u save it as a template!
Shit man some really good tips there. Would never have thought of trying anything like that. Definitely giving this a go with my next project.
yeah, great advice! thank you. i'm attempting to switch from reason to ableton at the moment, and hopefully ableton will make it much easier to do this than reason.
any suggestions as to where i could find more info into how to make 4 4 kicks big and interesting? i'm oddly fascinated.
Re: House
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:08 am
by hasezwei
Johnst wrote:
nnny wrote:
Ldizzy wrote:
zerbaman wrote: all about the balance I guess
so much!
@ Johnst :
There's still ways to emulate the "live" or "innacurate" sonic manifestations of hardware. there's a whole field of discussion about the subject.. but here's a couple ideas :
THEY ARE MY OPINION, IM OFTEN WRONG, but here :
- hardware samplers are often praised for their uber tight sequencers (when they have one). and it has to do with their reputation of having good rythms.. but to me there's the sequencer, and the actual soundwave. they have randomness in their sound..
- try to modulate the length of a kick... like the decay/sustain, but in an extremely subtle way, it has to be "subconsciously perceivable" only. and fast modulate it.. so its almost random (i do that in kontakt).
-try to modulate the attack even more slightly by modulating the actual attack, or a transient designer's "strenght/amount"... but really slightly...
honestly, these two things, along with proper eq and saturation.. allow me to get results incredibly close to my fav hardware sampler.
if ur pitching 808s. try treating them by split frequencies.
in kontakt u just set it once and then u save it as a template!
Shit man some really good tips there. Would never have thought of trying anything like that. Definitely giving this a go with my next project.
yeah, great advice! thank you. i'm attempting to switch from reason to ableton at the moment, and hopefully ableton will make it much easier to do this than reason.
any suggestions as to where i could find more info into how to make 4 4 kicks big and interesting? i'm oddly fascinated.
hipassed reverb on the kicks, sidechained if you like. can do wonders. just don't end up distorting it and compressing it again like me, you'll end up with horrible hardtechno shit
tight 808's are always good, but most importantly pay attention to detail. in house music, your kick is the main focus of the tune, it's the element that has to carry everything else. if you kick sucks no one will like your tune.
Re: House
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:14 am
by Johnst
hasezwei wrote:hipassed reverb on the kicks, sidechained if you like. can do wonders. just don't end up distorting it and compressing it again like me, you'll end up with horrible hardtechno shit
i tried doing that after i saw dirty south and realized that a major part of how "big" the kick felt was the reverb on the higher part.
[/quote] tight 808's are always good, but most importantly pay attention to detail. in house music, your kick is the main focus of the tune, it's the element that has to carry everything else. if you kick sucks no one will like your tune.[/quote]
agreed! besides the slight shuffle that ldizzy was talking about, i also can't seem to get the kick to punch enough. i'm not sure how much of that is mastering though.
Re: House
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:14 am
by Johnst
EDIT: double post, my bad
Re: House
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:47 am
by tavravlavish
I got a house tune on my soundcloud page /tavvish
Re: House
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:51 am
by Ldizzy
Johnst wrote:
hasezwei wrote:hipassed reverb on the kicks, sidechained if you like. can do wonders. just don't end up distorting it and compressing it again like me, you'll end up with horrible hardtechno shit
i tried doing that after i saw dirty south and realized that a major part of how "big" the kick felt was the reverb on the higher part.
tight 808's are always good, but most importantly pay attention to detail. in house music, your kick is the main focus of the tune, it's the element that has to carry everything else. if you kick sucks no one will like your tune.[/quote]
agreed! besides the slight shuffle that ldizzy was talking about, i also can't seem to get the kick to punch enough. i'm not sure how much of that is mastering though.[/quote]
sorry to be all anal and shat, but i wasn't referring to shuffle / sequencing.
Re: House
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:15 am
by Johnst
Ldizzy wrote: sorry to be all anal and shat, but i wasn't referring to shuffle / sequencing.
no worries, i appreciate that it matters. i just couldn't think of a better word than "shuffling" to describe a general "shuffling" or "continued interest" in the kick without going through your more elaborate points.
EDIT: ok, perhaps "slight, but fast and random modulation of the envelopes" would have made much more sense.
Re: House
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:48 am
by legend4ry
How do you go about structuring a house track? ive been proper struggling with this, ive only ever made dubstep and hiphop and not really actually "listened" how house works, production wise.
'eres what I got so far - sounds a bit odd structurally, no?
On Kicks
I take an 808 kick for the sustaining bass, rounded off at around 50hz, and envelope it to cut on the next one. Layer that with something more top ended, rounded off at around 85hz. Each kick on a different mixer track, and then bus to a kick bus for final compression/EQ and then to the final drum bus.
Leg, I do it so that some things change every 8 to 16 bars. If that's what your after, most house is around 8-bar structures
Re: House
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:37 am
by Ayatollah
legend4ry wrote:How do you go about structuring a house track? ive been proper struggling with this, ive only ever made dubstep and hiphop and not really actually "listened" how house works, production wise.
I'd recommend that you listen to a shitload of house... the rest will come
When I heard 'house' I expected four to the floor for 4 minutes. This is really nice... might have to start making some myself.
Re: House
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:10 pm
by hutyluty
Filthzilla wrote:
When I heard 'house' I expected four to the floor for 4 minutes.
how is that any worse than a half step for 4 minutes?- halfsteps no more original anymore
house influenced stuff running things- get to know
Re: House
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:30 pm
by Ayatollah
yeah fuck a halfstep beat... it needs to go away for a good while
Re: House
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:40 pm
by MikkiFunk
I make House, mostly funky and soulful, but bits and bobs of deeper house to let my early 90's Garage roots come through a little more in my house tracks!
Message me if you want any help with your tracks etc, I'm always happy to help just as more seasoned producers helped me out in turn, when I was first starting out.
Just don't think House is 'easy to make' lol. It takes a good 5 years to get good at it, making House all the time, and about the same again to get networking and making good contacts in the scene! It is a HUGE scene!
Re: House
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:25 am
by Ldizzy
MikkiFunk wrote:I make House, mostly funky and soulful, but bits and bobs of deeper house to let my early 90's Garage roots come through a little more in my house tracks!
Message me if you want any help with your tracks etc, I'm always happy to help just as more seasoned producers helped me out in turn, when I was first starting out.
Just don't think House is 'easy to make' lol. It takes a good 5 years to get good at it, making House all the time, and about the same again to get networking and making good contacts in the scene! It is a HUGE scene!
wow.
just... ur a house HEAD. ur music shows... its crazy. it's a feeling such few people grasp. excluding me.
we need to talk man. seriously.
Re: House
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:49 am
by Fbac
@legend4ry: THat oxFord streed dramas qualtiy ^^ are you planning on doing anythign with it?
i stoped working on this if anyone wants to take it over il take it apart
(early draft form) Soundcloud
anyone know any good crack house artists? i only know redlight i think
Re: House
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:39 pm
by MikkiFunk
wow.
just... ur a house HEAD. ur music shows... its crazy. it's a feeling such few people grasp. excluding me.
we need to talk man. seriously.
Cheers for the compliments bro. You're not alone, come over to my 'House' haha, see what its like over here, nice big scene, so much variety and originality (Imo any way, none of this how do I make this skrillex sound nonsense lol)
Message me on soundcloud. Someone off here already has but I don't think it was you haha.
Re: House
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:01 pm
by skimpi
MikkiFunk wrote:I make House, mostly funky and soulful, but bits and bobs of deeper house to let my early 90's Garage roots come through a little more in my house tracks!
Message me if you want any help with your tracks etc, I'm always happy to help just as more seasoned producers helped me out in turn, when I was first starting out.
Just don't think House is 'easy to make' lol. It takes a good 5 years to get good at it, making House all the time, and about the same again to get networking and making good contacts in the scene! It is a HUGE scene!
yeah i hate it when people are like 'oh house, just kick, kick, kick, kick, no wobble bass? thats easy to make then!' just because the bass sound doesnt have some growly mid sound doesnt means its any easier to make it sound professional, just because it usually has a kick on every beat doesnt mean the beats are boring and easy to make, the beats are alot more interesting than just kick snare.
Re: House
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:57 pm
by MikkiFunk
In any case, House is about more than drums bro. People actually obsess over drums waaayyyy to much, in all genre's, but some more than others. Dubstep is definitely one of them. Sure drums make the base of your track, but what about everything else that goes on top of it?!
IMO I feel a lot of people who are into harder music like Dnb (more 'jump up' DnB heads though really--liquid dnb is still really nice and soulful!), or very dark or dirty dubstep, feel House is too 'wimpy' etc haha. That just proves they have no soul though, they can't enjoy something a little more groovy/ happy and well, soulful
i'm not sure how much of that is mastering though.
