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Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:04 pm
by firky
dreamizm wrote:^^ Yeh Id agree with that.
But bangin up the hacks is like imprisioning factory workers in a factory polluting the ocean.
No.
It's more like imprisoning the workers for opening up the sluice gates into the ocean knowing fine well that it's going to pollute it, perhaps doing irreversible damage not to just the ocean but the entire factory industry including other 'good' workers.
I come from the Heather Brooke (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Brooke) side of journalism but this isn't investigative journalism, it's premeditated cold calculated intent to get a story at any cost.
My mum used to work in very confidential circles before she retired. She was the kind of person who'd go into say Haringey Council and find out who at the top of the tree was responsible for Baby P's death. Anyway, she's got some very interesting theories about all this... from high ranking police officers taking back handers from NOTW to rebel MPs grassing! I think my mum is Sunny Hundal (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_Hundal)
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:56 pm
by magma
dreamizm wrote:^^ Yeh Id agree with that.
But bangin up the hacks is like imprisioning factory workers in a factory polluting the ocean.
'Accountability' is the big word in the early 20th century
If it was ordered or approved by people higher up then they're implicit, but the person who deleted the message committed a fucking crime (tampering with a crime scene/police evidence before you even get into the privacy stuff) and chose to commit it. If my boss asked me to do something illegal, I'm pretty capable of saying no.
Accountability is important. Personal accountability the most important kind. Unless you're a soldier (in which case I'll accept a grey area), you can
always say no.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:22 pm
by kay
dreamizm wrote:
Anyone who has bought The Sun, News of the World or any rag regularly in the last decade is guilty in this.
Good to know I can moan about this then.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:44 pm
by dreamizm
gorillabearbear wrote:
It's also pretty easy to say "oh loads of newpapers have got in the way of police investigations before" but unless you can provide something concrete about that then it isn't much of an argument.
You honestly want me to go back through history and give you examples of specific cases? You think all of a sudden in the late 90s reporters just thought 'oh yeah, let's start getting our information on crime stories from police!' Come on!
firky wrote:dreamizm wrote:^^ Yeh Id agree with that.
But bangin up the hacks is like imprisioning factory workers in a factory polluting the ocean.
No.
It's more like imprisoning the workers for opening up the sluice gates into the ocean knowing fine well that it's going to pollute it, perhaps doing irreversible damage not to just the ocean but the entire factory industry including other 'good' workers.
I come from the Heather Brooke (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Brooke) side of journalism but this isn't investigative journalism, it's premeditated cold calculated intent to get a story at any cost.
Yes but the factory workers didn't wake up one day and decide to open the sluice gates when the boss wasn't looking. They were under explicit orders, in a culture/industry that tolerates and in some cases actively encourages such gross amoral behaviour.
Don't really care what school of journalism you are from mate. This is real-world reporting, fuelled by market-demand, it ain't a re-run of 'All the President's Men'.
Listen to what Paul McMullen, former deputy features editor at NoW, is saying.
magma wrote:If my boss asked me to do something illegal, I'm pretty capable of saying no.
Yes, but what does that solve when there are hundreds of others that will fill your shoes just to 'get on'? Outcome is the same.
I agree with personal accountability and it was 'wrong' to delete messages but am I the only one that can see the bigger picture here?
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:10 pm
by gorillabearbear
I honestly don't know what you seem to think the bigger picture is? That everyone is doing it? I don't deny that they are all at it because I don't really know, and they are all pretty desperate to compete with other media that have overtaken them - but does that mean we shouldn't be condemning individuals involved in this specific case? Surely we should make sure our condemnation is felt in order to try and send a message that it is not something the public are prepared to put up with.
As for providing a specific example; evidence that what you are saying is true generally helps if you want people to take it seriously yes.
Honestly don't know what your bigger picture is, apart from trying to justify moral apathy
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:11 am
by firky
gorillabearbear wrote:
Honestly don't know what your bigger picture is, apart from trying to justify moral apathy
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:39 am
by magma
Just because lots of people commit a crime doesn't stop any individual instance of it being a crime. You have to start stamping it out somewhere and the fucks that swagger around hacking anyone even remotely newsworthy, including dead teenage girls, are as good a place to start as any.
Or perhaps we should all sit back, resign ourselves to humanity being disgusting and cry impotently into our Cup-a-Soups?
SMH...
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:45 am
by firky
Toby Young (hate that man), said that we should shut up because the NOTW has done us many favours, including finding out about corrupt Pakistani cricketers.
http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23tobyyoung
One dead school girls' hacked phone is a small price to pay so that we can keep cricket pure.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:57 am
by Mr Hyde
Dead soldiers families phones now, classy.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:00 am
by firky
It's all rather reminiscent of this
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:05 pm
by dreamizm
gorillabearbear wrote:I honestly don't know what you seem to think the bigger picture is?
That we - as readers/consumers of this news - are complicit in all this.
At the same time, I still agree with most of you that prosectutions/resignations should be pursued. The public outcry (not ncessarily any of you) just seems a bit pious to me.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:53 pm
by nicenice
Nice coincidence this all comes to light just as Rupert is about to take over sky.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:16 pm
by clifford_-
firky wrote:It's all rather reminiscent of this
real talk.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:22 pm
by magma
nicenice wrote:Nice coincidence this all comes to light just as Rupert is about to take over sky.
Starting to wonder whether the timing is such a coincidence... perhaps it's all blown up at exactly the expected/planned time. The Non-NewsCorp-Media can't believe their luck (and neither can the rest of us). Major props to Nick Davies/The Guardian for breaking all this.... but I wonder if it was timed for maximum impact.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:56 pm
by magma
Jon Snow tweets:
BREAKING: News International tells #c4news this Sunday's issue of the News of the World will be its last.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:02 pm
by nousd
Neptune wrote:They deleted voicemails off Milly Dowler's phone to make space for new ones. This led to her parents thinking she was still alive. It might have interferred with the police investigation.
If the Public Prosecutor can counter Murdoch zillions, lock em up & throw away the key.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:06 pm
by 64hz
magma wrote:Jon Snow tweets:
BREAKING: News International tells #c4news this Sunday's issue of the News of the World will be its last.
now just need to get rid of the sun and daily mail, then guillotine murdoch and alls good.
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:24 pm
by Neptune
i wanna buy their last ever paper. i wonder what the headline will be...
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:29 pm
by HamCrescendo
Neptune wrote:i wanna buy their last ever paper. i wonder what the headline will be...
News International to launch Sun on Sunday
Re: News of the World Scandal
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:40 pm
by firky
magma wrote:Jon Snow tweets:
BREAKING: News International tells #c4news this Sunday's issue of the News of the World will be its last.
All he'll do is shift the NOTW desk to the Sun.