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JBoy wrote:Theres jobs around for people willing to do them, be that cleaning, shelf stacking or other jobs that some would class as 'menial'. Im not saying that there is enough jobs for everyone but some people do expect too much, having a degree doesnt entitle you to everthing immediately after graduating and some see themsleves as too good for a lot of jobs. It cant be helped if loads of people are doing stupid degrees with no employment factor at the end of it. A job is a job at the end of the day, i lost my job that i loved and i never thought id be portering in a hospital part time but i'll do anything to tide me over. Seems like a lot of people arent prepared to do that.

So when that becomes the only job you can find will you be content and happy knowing this could be you for 50 years? This notion that any job will do is nonsense, cleaning toilets or stacking shelves for minimum wage is not a good quality of life, I've done both of these at minimum wage and wouldn't wish it on anyone regardless of where they are from or how educated they are, it grinds you down mentally and physically.
Doing these jobs for a wage that compensates the shittyness of the job and affords them a little luxury at the end of the week and the ability, fair enough, who could argue with that, but remember why this shit is happening, why there is a lack of industry in this country, especially city outskirts and rural areas, a lack of real skill development for young people and a fucking HUGE divide between the 'barely got' and the 'have too much'.

And remember this country is governed by party whose leader has NEVER HAD A REAL JOB, he's set a fine example.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

JBoy wrote:Theres jobs around for people willing to do them, be that cleaning, shelf stacking or other jobs that some would class as 'menial'. Im not saying that there is enough jobs for everyone but some people do expect too much, having a degree doesnt entitle you to everthing immediately after graduating and some see themsleves as too good for a lot of jobs. It cant be helped if loads of people are doing stupid degrees with no employment factor at the end of it. A job is a job at the end of the day, i lost my job that i loved and i never thought id be portering in a hospital part time but i'll do anything to tide me over. Seems like a lot of people arent prepared to do that.

So when that becomes the only job you can find will you be content and happy knowing this could be you for 50 years? This notion that any job will do is nonsense, cleaning toilets or stacking shelves for minimum wage is not a good quality of life, I've done both of these at minimum wage and wouldn't wish it on anyone regardless of where they are from or how educated they are, it grinds you down mentally and physically.
Doing these jobs for a wage that compensates the shittyness of the job and affords them a little luxury at the end of the week and the ability, fair enough, who could argue with that, but remember why this shit is happening, why there is a lack of industry in this country, especially city outskirts and rural areas, a lack of real skill development for young people and a fucking HUGE divide between the 'barely got' and the 'have too much'.

And remember this country is governed by party whose leader has NEVER HAD A REAL JOB, he's set a fine example.

No im not happy but it could be worse, i could be unemployed and homeless couldnt i, so im not going to cry about something when other people have it ten times worse than me. The tide me over bit simply meant until i find work in my chosen profession, thats all.

JBoy wrote:

cogidubnus wrote:

JBoy wrote:Theres jobs around for people willing to do them, be that cleaning, shelf stacking or other jobs that some would class as 'menial'.

JBoy wrote: Im not saying that there is enough jobs for everyone

You disproved your point in two sentences. There aren't enough jobs full stop, irregardless of it meaning highly intelligent people having to scrub toilets. Why aren't their enough jobs? because all of the money's been sucked out of the economy and into low-tax accounts in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands held by multi-millionaires, some of them doubtless the same ones benefitting by this scheme of slave labour. I anticipate the next batch of JSA claimants being sent to work for the energy cartels, probably on the phones encouraging people to switch providers to continue the illusion of choice.

I didnt disaprove anything, saying there are jobs available but not enough for everyone is exactly what i said. Ive got a degree and ive apllied for cleaning jobs, im not shy of work and id do that to earn a wage. I agree with what you say mate, the system is wrong and were in this whole mess due to cuts that certain people caused by being greedy.

Yes, sorry read your post again. I feel for your situation, and fair play that you're willing to do that kind of work, but presumably you want something more for your life than that in the future.

JBoy wrote: No im not happy but it could be worse, i could be unemployed and homeless couldnt i, so im not going to cry about something when other people have it ten times worse than me. The tide me over bit simply meant until i find work in my chosen profession, thats all.

Your argument doesn't stand mate, the point is that people should be happy in life and work, we're a 1st world modern nation. It's not a case of 'well I could be homeless, so I'll do anything to ensure that doesn't happen' being homeless should never happen and when it does it's a failing of the system that has measures put in place to ensure it shouldn't, a Social Benefit one, the same one people are trapped in because being in a shit job on a wage that doesn't cover the cost of living plus some makes life very fucking hard for people and makes them unhappy, do you want to live in a country knowing the majority of society are unhappy?.

if the saying mo money mo problems is true, this should be the most carefree existence possible.

I should sell conservative policies to tha youth.

O Tumma Tum Ladin wrote:if the saying mo money mo problems is true, this should be the most carefree existence possible.

I should sell conservative policies to tha youth.

...and take comedy lessons. You've got the post-rate to be a half decent troll, but you're going to need some witticisms that haven't been going around since 1997.

magma wrote:

O Tumma Tum Ladin wrote:if the saying mo money mo problems is true, this should be the most carefree existence possible.

I should sell conservative policies to tha youth.

...and take comedy lessons. You've got the post-rate to be a half decent troll, but you're going to need some witticisms that haven't been going around since 1997.

Hes definately trying too hard to be funny but failing.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

JBoy wrote: No im not happy but it could be worse, i could be unemployed and homeless couldnt i, so im not going to cry about something when other people have it ten times worse than me. The tide me over bit simply meant until i find work in my chosen profession, thats all.

Your argument doesn't stand mate, the point is that people should be happy in life and work, we're a 1st world modern nation. It's not a case of 'well I could be homeless, so I'll do anything to ensure that doesn't happen' being homeless should never happen and when it does it's a failing of the system that has measures put in place to ensure it shouldn't, a Social Benefit one, the same one people are trapped in because being in a shit job on a wage that doesn't cover the cost of living plus some makes life very fucking hard for people and makes them unhappy, do you want to live in a country knowing the majority of society are unhappy?.

fair one mate, i do see your point 100% but the way i see it is that a person might aswell make the best out of shitty situation. Things are shit at the moment and i understand the reasons why things have gone wrong but this recession wont last forever and in the mean time i'll do the best i can in life, what more is anyone supposed to do do than that.

JBoy wrote: No im not happy but it could be worse, i could be unemployed and homeless couldnt i, so im not going to cry about something when other people have it ten times worse than me. The tide me over bit simply meant until i find work in my chosen profession, thats all.

THATS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK

JBoy wrote:

magma wrote:

O Tumma Tum Ladin wrote:if the saying mo money mo problems is true, this should be the most carefree existence possible.

I should sell conservative policies to tha youth.

...and take comedy lessons. You've got the post-rate to be a half decent troll, but you're going to need some witticisms that haven't been going around since 1997.

Hes definately trying too hard to be funny but failing.

garethom wrote:

O Tumma Tum Ladin wrote:the only purpose of feminist critical theory is to break down gender boundaries to the point where most men are gay enough to let these carol anne duffalikes fuck them with a strap on.

Probably the funniest thing ever written on DSF.

that biggie joke was poor though.

cogidubnus wrote:This whole scenario is a fucking disgrace. And since I imagine not many supermarket CEO's, investment bankers or political aides frequent the Secret Ninja Hideout, I conclude most of you in favour of this are petulant sixth-formers with no experience of the real world who think this kind of shit won't ever happen to you.

It's slave labour, with the beneficiaries of that labour being private profit-driven corporations who are now having one of their main overheads being provided for free by this scheme, at the behest of the government. This stinks like a foetid bubonic corpse and the fact that young people have apparently been brainwashed into thinking that this is not only acceptable but actually a good thing makes me really fucking depressed.

The whole free labour given to corporations by the government is the real problem here, but nobody knows what the technicalities are yet. At the moment, it's just another shocker: "SLAVE LABOUR IN THE UK, NOT EVEN YOUR BENEFITS AREN'T SAFE".

hayze99 wrote:

cogidubnus wrote:This whole scenario is a fucking disgrace. And since I imagine not many supermarket CEO's, investment bankers or political aides frequent the Secret Ninja Hideout, I conclude most of you in favour of this are petulant sixth-formers with no experience of the real world who think this kind of shit won't ever happen to you.

It's slave labour, with the beneficiaries of that labour being private profit-driven corporations who are now having one of their main overheads being provided for free by this scheme, at the behest of the government. This stinks like a foetid bubonic corpse and the fact that young people have apparently been brainwashed into thinking that this is not only acceptable but actually a good thing makes me really fucking depressed.

The whole free labour given to corporations by the government is the real problem here, but nobody knows what the technicalities are yet. At the moment, it's just another shocker: "SLAVE LABOUR IN THE UK, NOT EVEN YOUR BENEFITS AREN'T SAFE".

agreed, it's easy to get lost in the myriad subjects that arise alongside this but the main par is that UK taxpayers are paying wages that Tesco's etc should be paying.
This scheme would seem a little less ridiculous if the placements were with charities or doing work in a community but it's the direct link to, and benefit for huge multi-national corporations that is the real issue.

lloydnoise wrote: agreed, it's easy to get lost in the myriad subjects that arise alongside this but the main par is that UK taxpayers are paying wages that Tesco's etc should be paying.

It's all trickle-up economics really - minimum wage is set too low to cover rent, bills and other living costs so housing benefit, tax credits and other extras are essentially used to subsidise individuals so their employers can get away with paying them less. Rents also wouldn't be so high in certain areas if private landlords hadn't exploited DSS tenants at rates that private tenants mostly couldn't afford. It could be argued that people paying so much to rent properties has kept money out of the economy that might actually stimulate growth through increased consumption.

Ultimately the biggest recipients of welfare in this country are the wealthy - bailouts, PFI, wage subsidies and tax breaks.

hayze99 wrote: The whole free labour given to corporations by the government is the real problem here, but nobody knows what the technicalities are yet. At the moment, it's just another shocker: "SLAVE LABOUR IN THE UK, NOT EVEN YOUR BENEFITS AREN'T SAFE".

What would you like to know before finding this offensive? Isn't there enough in the report linked in the OP to suggest this is happening in a way that is at the very least sufficient for cause for concern?

STATE BENEFITS SHOULD NOT DIRECTLY BENEFIT CORPORATIONS - this means that people will be employed for sub-minimum wage which is technically illegal (though that doesn't stop Sainsburys and the like forcing contracts on to people that directly contravene their rights) and will discourage such companies hiring new workers thus perpetuating the length of time spent on benefits rather than creating meaningful employment.

In case you hadn't realised though, McDonald's actually already do this and around '08 were actively collaborating with the Jobcentre to promote 'work trial' schemes in their so-called 'restaurants'. I actually went on one of these as I was so desperate for work, I ended up cleaning toilets and emptying bins (i.e. basic menial work that requires no thinking) only to be fobbed off by both managers claiming they 'needed to speak to the other manager' several times before just told I wasn't going to have a job... Basically, it seems they just arrange a steady supply of fodder to keep wage costs low

I remember the possiblity that people would do COMMUNITY work which would be more meaningful and beneficial to society at large, how did corporations get in to this!?

It's also a plan concocted by govs to fool the unemployment figures, because when you enter into one of these schemes, on paper, technically you are no longer on 'JSA' and they put you down as one of the people they got back into the work force and off JSA, even though you enter back into JSA once the scheme is done, Thats what 'new deal' was all about. It looks good for their sexing campaign come election time.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:It's also a plan concocted by govs to fool the unemployment figures, because when you enter into one of these schemes, on paper, technically you are no longer on 'JSA' and they put you down as one of the people they got back into the work force and off JSA, even though you enter back into JSA once the scheme is done, Thats what 'new deal' was all about. It looks good for their sexing campaign come election time.

clever girl...

lloydnoise wrote:clever girl...

It's a really tough call as to: working vs not paying taxes and hustling full time grind it out.
There's little to no security on the grind, but paying the war machine isn't really my cup of tea.