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spot on safe out. hoping for icnic to give its input.

Saw this a few weeks ago now.
While I enjoyed it and glad you had the balls to get up and speak, I'm not sure I agree about your generalisation and cant help but think it's just your interpretation of certain factors and your opinion on other talks you had seen that day.

Today wrote:just wondering, OP.. there's someone "joe" or "DJ Muggs" i can't recall at the moment, who spins dubstep something like Tuesday nights on Eminem's XM radio station Shade45.. is that you?

No it's not Cypress Hills DJ.

I think the talk has it's high points and low points. The end idea, the purpose of dj's, the simple joy of bringing people together to have a good time and interact with each other is something I strongly believe in. At a deep level in me, I know this is why I get bored with single genre sets or nights. Only nights at the forefront of a scene, pushing something new and unheard of can really get away with that, like DMZ. But as the ideas become tired and diluted, so do the nights, the crowds and inevitably the music.

I can't claim the history or educated perspective Joe has, being older and being able to appreciate the music scene before the Criminal Justice Bill. It must have been a magical time. But I find Joe over exaggerates points, to hammer them home but inevitably alienated me (and obviously some in this thread) from his description. I bun weed in clubs, sometimes. I drink in clubs sometimes. I'm a moderate kinda guy, as were all of my mates that I got into music and eventually clubbing with. We'd carefully pick the nights we wanted to go to. We'd find the artists, bands and djs that we knew would provide something exciting and interesting to listen and talk about in future. I know this probably puts me and my mates in the minority, but then I can't help myself but think, perhaps Joe comes across so jaded in this delivery because of overexposure, poor choices or expectations that could never be met (or would never be by simply going to whatever fashionable night and banging loads of coke/ecstacy).

Yeah, I like this: h8rs gonna h8

thanks for posting will check later

dat1 wrote:Yeah, I like this: h8rs gonna h8

@Pete Bubonic, you kind of make my point... in the scheme of things, the nights that innovate musically, create good vibes and operate as decent people are a small minority. Clubland as a whole is corrupt and dirty; and the good stuff doesn't exist separate from the red in tooth and claw capitalism of the bulk, it's part of the same infrastructure. I'm not jaded, quite the opposite, I'm as full of love for the positive aspects of club culture and music, and hope for what can be achieved by amplifying its finest principles - BUT I think that you can't truly understand those good elements unless you understand the corruption of their context.

I totally agree that I might have over-egged the point - especially for YouTube viewers, looking at it in the cold light of day - though. That's what I mean about it being an experiment, I'm trying out new ways of expressing these ideas that don't have to get tied up in the same old semantic knots... but that leads to its own set of problems, particularly with expectations and preconceptions.

Joe, you get mad props for doing it all. Though from your words above, do you think that perhaps the driving point that it exists in a balance, perhaps one forced upon us by the govt/capitalism, is almost a given? Kind of a sign of the times of modern culture as a whole rather than just the club/music scene? Perhaps I'm not writing my words right, I'm certainly not as eloquent as you, so excuse that...

I wonder if the speech you gave could be applied to near any modern cultural reference, whether it be TV, films, professional sports, perhaps as far as even general corporate structure and government policies, in that there is a dark/corrupt side to all things. We all have this idea of utopia (ie: the rave scene pre the criminal justice bill) which is inevitably crushed or distorted to meet economic pressures and requirements?

Also, " I remember when all this was fields!"

pete bubonic wrote:Joe, you get mad props for doing it all. Though from your words above, do you think that perhaps the driving point that it exists in a balance, perhaps one forced upon us by the govt/capitalism, is almost a given? Kind of a sign of the times of modern culture as a whole rather than just the club/music scene? Perhaps I'm not writing my words right, I'm certainly not as eloquent as you, so excuse that...

I wonder if the speech you gave could be applied to near any modern cultural reference, whether it be TV, films, professional sports, perhaps as far as even general corporate structure and government policies, in that there is a dark/corrupt side to all things. We all have this idea of utopia (ie: the rave scene pre the criminal justice bill) which is inevitably crushed or distorted to meet economic pressures and requirements?

Also, " I remember when all this was fields!"

LOOOOL... rave scene pre criminal justice bill was never utopia. Some magical times and places of course, and some massively important social link-ups and ideas and music being forged, but all the sordidness and corruption that comes with any drug culture too.

Yes, totally it could apply to other spheres of life. I'll quote Mala here: "I think unfortunately when you get involved in any kind of industry you’re going to come up against stuff that you’d really rather not. I mean, I’m certainly not going to sit here and say everything’s great and everyone loves each other, because it’s not the case and there’s been shady shit that’s gone on, but that’s life: you accept it and you get on with it. It’s not like it’s only going to happen to you or it only happens in the dubstep scene: if you’re a builder it happens on a building site, it happens everywhere. It’s just life and sometimes you experience negative sides of life..."

It IS the case everywhere, but the topic of discussion at the TEDx event was DJ culture, and I just felt it was worth acknowledging all sides of that culture.

Mala also says, about the ugly side of the club/music industry: "You can’t stop it. Even if you wanted to stop it you can’t and I think that’s a pointless battle to even entertain the thoughts of. But that’s not for me, and you don’t have to go down that route; I think in some strange way I’ve always hoped that that’s what this whole thing can show other people that are like-minded or just want to put out their music and not worry about all the nonsense that comes with it."

Now, I agree with that. But NOT WORRYING about the nonsense is not the same as IGNORING it. Quite the opposite, I think you need to know the bad in order to be able to navigate around it. If you deny its existence, you are blind to it, so you never know when it's going to bite you on the arse. Not that you should think about it or go on about it all the time, but it's worth having a reminder once in a while.

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/21/dont_me ... singleton/



here is an article on TEDx


edit: to be fair, you were representing an accurate interpretation of clubbing culture when you linked it to the inequalities arising out of blackmarket drug trade corruption



I well enjoyed yr rant. respectfully gonna call that a rant. big up joe!

interesting rent

crabb steppa wrote:http://www.salon.com/2012/05/21/dont_me ... singleton/



here is an article on TEDx


edit: to be fair, you were representing an accurate interpretation of clubbing culture when you linked it to the inequalities arising out of blackmarket drug trade corruption



I well enjoyed yr rant. respectfully gonna call that a rant. big up joe!

Thanks, and yes, rant is the word. I should add for anyone who didn't work it out already I had had several drinks by that point in the evening.

That TED article is excellent. Salon is snippy by nature, but I think most of the criticisms are accurate...