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Pedro Sánchez wrote:

AxeD wrote:What happens to a pigeon when it dies?

It's exactly the same for us.

Why do you never see baby pigeons?

everyone has a party

dubfordessert wrote:consciousness IS physically embodied though. when you die the ongoing processes which produce your experience of being (you) cease. so you also cease. any copies which are made of those process patterns will nevertheless not be you, although they might perceive themselves to be.

Consciousness is both physically embodied, but also exists in a disembodied format prior to ,and after physicality. Our bodies are the receiving vessels of consciousness much in the same way we receive and transmit our thoughts and feeling.

'Death' is no different. Physical form is impermanent, but there is always an energy exchange. In the face of the universe 'death' is the continuation of life in it's different forms and isn't really death. Life is eternal and everything possess that same essence. Some people remember/sense past incarnations and some don't.

I don't buy into any religious notions of an after life (heaven /hell ) but i do believe an energy transfer takes place- possibly DMT and pineal gland related. Our 'identities' are much more timeless than we imagine and we essentially 'choose' the elements of the life and consciousness we wish to experience in order to continually further the understandings of who ,what and where we are.

The void isn't as empty as we imagine, yet exists in ways we can't really imagine or articulate either when in our physical form.

In short,

Motorway to Roswell wrote:everyone has a party

And we are the party , and it never ends (or at least go's on for a 'very' long time )

I suppose there's only one way to find out really

d-T-r wrote:

dubfordessert wrote:consciousness IS physically embodied though. when you die the ongoing processes which produce your experience of being (you) cease. so you also cease. any copies which are made of those process patterns will nevertheless not be you, although they might perceive themselves to be.

Consciousness is both physically embodied, but also exists in a disembodied format prior to ,and after physicality. Our bodies are the receiving vessels of consciousness much in the same way we receive and transmit our thoughts and feeling.

'Death' is no different. Physical form is impermanent, but there is always an energy exchange. In the face of the universe 'death' is the continuation of life in it's different forms and isn't really death. Life is eternal and everything possess that same essence. Some people remember/sense past incarnations and some don't.

I don't buy into any religious notions of an after life (heaven /hell ) but i do believe an energy transfer takes place- possibly DMT and pineal gland related. Our 'identities' are much more timeless than we imagine and we essentially 'choose' the elements of the life and consciousness we wish to experience in order to continually further the understandings of who ,what and where we are.

The void isn't as empty as we imagine, yet exists in ways we can't really imagine or articulate either when in our physical form.

In short,

Motorway to Roswell wrote:everyone has a party

And we are the party , and it never ends (or at least go's on for a 'very' long time )

im sorry but that honestly sounds like complete bollocks

Lights out. No afterlife, no reincarnation.

dubfordessert wrote:
im sorry but that honestly sounds like complete bollocks

Experiment with some Astral-projection or some dmt/aya. See what you think about Disembodied & Unified consciousness then... or don't

Death is luckily one of those things where your beliefs/asumptions about it won't really influence what it is anyway. Personally i think it's gonna be fun but i'm in no rush just yet.

"You are the universe, expressing itself as a human for a little while”

'Death'...don't knock it till you 'tried' it

When all the black holes have evaporated and there is thermal equilibrium, even the universe dies. No mass, no useful energy, no time. But probably long before that the vacuum will rip time and space apart.

The void isn't as empty as we imagine, yet exists in ways we can't really imagine or articulate either when in our physical form.

lol, the 'void' makes up 75% of the energy content of the universe.

talking bout' entropy right?

you took the other sentence, or usage of the word void out of context too. I was referring to the conscious void we emerge from before birth and after death. My recollection of it is somewhat abstract though. Again, it doesn't matter what we assume. The Singularity applies to consciousness too, many ways to go back to the same place.

starting to think i should post all my comments in the unpopular opinions thread but that would kill the fun

nah your posts are always good reading mate

as are yours man

Despite everyone's 'differences' , it's always good to see a full spectrum of opinions on here...would be boring if it wasn't that way and no one would gain anything 'new' /long forgotten.

d-T-r wrote:

dubfordessert wrote:
im sorry but that honestly sounds like complete bollocks

Experiment with some Astral-projection or some dmt/aya. See what you think about Disembodied & Unified consciousness then... or don't

Death is luckily one of those things where your beliefs/asumptions about it won't really influence what it is anyway. Personally i think it's gonna be fun but i'm in no rush just yet.

"You are the universe, expressing itself as a human for a little while”

'Death'...don't knock it till you 'tried' it

I've done DMT and I find people tend to interpret it afterwards in various different ways. It's not like you take DMT and are led to believe in disembodied consciousness automatically. I find it pretty implausible personally, as the experience results from smoking a substance which is acting upon your body in a certain way. I'm uncertain as to how a physical substance would interact with an immaterial consciousness (this violates the principle of the conservation of energy btw) - how do you suppose this is?

cosmic surgeon wrote:

d-T-r wrote:

dubfordessert wrote:
im sorry but that honestly sounds like complete bollocks

Experiment with some Astral-projection or some dmt/aya. See what you think about Disembodied & Unified consciousness then... or don't

Death is luckily one of those things where your beliefs/asumptions about it won't really influence what it is anyway. Personally i think it's gonna be fun but i'm in no rush just yet.

"You are the universe, expressing itself as a human for a little while”

'Death'...don't knock it till you 'tried' it

I've done DMT and I find people tend to interpret it afterwards in various different ways. It's not like you take DMT and are led to believe in disembodied consciousness automatically. I find it pretty implausible personally, as the experience results from smoking a substance which is acting upon your body in a certain way. I'm uncertain as to how a physical substance would interact with an immaterial consciousness (this violates the principle of the conservation of energy btw) - how do you suppose this is?

yeh exactly my reaction to it too, im doing it again this weekend though, it was funny doing it with my mate who had a much more intense trip than i did, but she tends to be a more intense personality anyway, end of the day, your brain and mind is still at the centre of the drug

but, we'll see what its like this time

the coporeal/incorporeal problem is a classic too, as brilliant as he was, Descartes dun goofed

cosmic surgeon wrote:

d-T-r wrote:

dubfordessert wrote:
im sorry but that honestly sounds like complete bollocks

Experiment with some Astral-projection or some dmt/aya. See what you think about Disembodied & Unified consciousness then... or don't

Death is luckily one of those things where your beliefs/asumptions about it won't really influence what it is anyway. Personally i think it's gonna be fun but i'm in no rush just yet.

"You are the universe, expressing itself as a human for a little while”

'Death'...don't knock it till you 'tried' it

I've done DMT and I find people tend to interpret it afterwards in various different ways. It's not like you take DMT and are led to believe in disembodied consciousness automatically. I find it pretty implausible personally, as the experience results from smoking a substance which is acting upon your body in a certain way. I'm uncertain as to how a physical substance would interact with an immaterial consciousness (this violates the principle of the conservation of energy btw) - how do you suppose this is?

Depends on the experience as you say. i've had amazonian spirits in as well as completely fucking abstract entities in my room which have had completely conscious and interactive characteristics, yet no physical embodiment.

the thing that puts dmt in a different league is that are lot of people now are starting to explore the potential links it has to our perception of the Electro-magnetic spectrum. Death i think could essentially be a 'tuning' in to a different frequency, beyond the physical third dimensional frequencies of matter.

It's a physical substance, yet molecularity it's pretty much already part of our brain chemistry in low dosages....hence the mention of it, as there is reasonable speculation about whether or not larger quantities of it are released when we die.

Pineal Gland as a consciousness/electro-magnetic tuner essentially. a widening of the frequency band.

like i said earlier, i think that the realm beyond physical existence is naturally going to be completely ineffable to reference in a physical format. art and words can hint at it ,inspired from either usage of it or other mind-medicines & near death ( or actual 'death' and resuscitation) but it wold be a whole other area of perception all together.

either way, there's always going to be more questions than answers, which i think is a pretty important thing to highlight.

^^^^^^
you're ignoring the actual question

how does something non-physical connect with the physical

if consciousness is separate to the physical body [the only way that any of what you talk about can take place] then how do the two interact??

you said yourself in the above,

the realm beyond physical existence is naturally going to be completely ineffable to reference in a physical format

noam wrote:

cosmic surgeon wrote:

d-T-r wrote:

dubfordessert wrote:
im sorry but that honestly sounds like complete bollocks

Experiment with some Astral-projection or some dmt/aya. See what you think about Disembodied & Unified consciousness then... or don't

Death is luckily one of those things where your beliefs/asumptions about it won't really influence what it is anyway. Personally i think it's gonna be fun but i'm in no rush just yet.

"You are the universe, expressing itself as a human for a little while”

'Death'...don't knock it till you 'tried' it

I've done DMT and I find people tend to interpret it afterwards in various different ways. It's not like you take DMT and are led to believe in disembodied consciousness automatically. I find it pretty implausible personally, as the experience results from smoking a substance which is acting upon your body in a certain way. I'm uncertain as to how a physical substance would interact with an immaterial consciousness (this violates the principle of the conservation of energy btw) - how do you suppose this is?

yeh exactly my reaction to it too, im doing it again this weekend though, it was funny doing it with my mate who had a much more intense trip than i did, but she tends to be a more intense personality anyway, end of the day, your brain and mind is still at the centre of the drug

but, we'll see what its like this time

the coporeal/incorporeal problem is a classic too, as brilliant as he was, Descartes dun goofed

it will be different each time! and depending on dosage and efficiency of inhalation etc . like anything, the more u have the more further u go with it....

"end of the day, your brain and mind is still at the centre of the drug" = Or it could be the other way around.

I strongly recommend Changa /involving harmalas as apposed to just raw dmt which can be too ineffable to bring much back from sometimes.

For the curious people reading, do lots of research and read various forums with more info on it, and watch videos before even thinking about thinking about trying any.

And be sure to update us with how it go's Noam. Will also be doing some serious voyaging in the very near future for the first time in a while. Will see what i 'bring' back this time

noam wrote:^^^^^^
you're ignoring the actual question

how does something non-physical connect with the physical

if consciousness is separate to the physical body [the only way that any of what you talk about can take place] then how do the two interact??

you said yourself in the above,

the realm beyond physical existence is naturally going to be completely ineffable to reference in a physical format

The physical exists within the space of the non physical. Our good freind duality again

a physical object outlines the physical object, as well as accentuating the emptiness (non physical) that surrounds it and provides the non physical space for it to be physical.

We are physical yet the space around us isnt, yet both allow for the interaction of both.

as for how they interact, i think i kind of said it earlier in that Our physical bodies are the receivers of consciousness. Like how a radio tunes in to a frequency for playback. We're currently tuned in to 'third-dimension Fm' " bringing you the finest photons/colours within your viewable spectrum and the finest frequencies our ears can hear"

Dont touch that Dial ! or maybe do...

our bodies are the physical, and we receive /transmit the non/meta-physical. I think that consciousness can be both disembodied as well as embodied. constant fluid interchange.

but yeah essentially, all this stuff does get to the ineffable threshold sooner or later.

thats conceptual, i understand how you CAN answer the question at hand, and conceptually the physical and the non-physical yadda yadda yadda

the reality is much more than that.

you've repeated this

as for how they interact, i think i kind of said it earlier in that Our physical bodies are the receivers of consciousness. our bodies are the physical, and we that receive the non/meta-physical. I think that consciousness can be both disembodied as well as embodied. constant fluid interchange.

in various ways, but that simply begs the question its supposed to be answering

philosophically, these are non-starters, though interesting thoughts

the body being the receiver of consciousness is an idea that goes back eons, its just been described in different ways according to contemporary theory regarding existence, the same way the mind and consciousness had at various times been described as machinery, or a computer, or whatever contemporary analogy there is to make that fits until a new analogy is more up-to-date... its still the same idea, dressed in different ways.

but to be a receiver of consciousness through the pineal gland... is well... Descartes 101. and there's still literally no substance to the argument

noam wrote:thats conceptual, i understand how you CAN answer the question at hand, and conceptually the physical and the non-physical yadda yadda yadda

the reality is much more than that.

you've repeated this

as for how they interact, i think i kind of said it earlier in that Our physical bodies are the receivers of consciousness. our bodies are the physical, and we that receive the non/meta-physical. I think that consciousness can be both disembodied as well as embodied. constant fluid interchange.

in various ways, but that simply begs the question its supposed to be answering

philosophically, these are non-starters, though interesting thoughts

the body being the receiver of consciousness is an idea that goes back eons, its just been described in different ways according to contemporary theory regarding existence, the same way the mind and consciousness had at various times been described as machinery, or a computer, or whatever contemporary analogy there is to make that fits until a new analogy is more up-to-date... its still the same idea, dressed in different ways.

but to be a receiver of consciousness through the pineal gland... is well... Descartes 101. and there's still literally no substance to the argument

yeah, of course the reality of it is much 'more' than i can explain. we can only ever reference the parts we think we've experienced.

and yeah, i have repeated myself a few times. bit tired so this is more like a free rambling of thoughts as apposed to carefully planned sentences.

I'm not sure what question it's asking anyway. i don't think many of us know which is the fun part.

there is some substance to both the consciousness and the pineal gland argument too. with both scientific as well as more 'mystical' ties. Rest assured, there are some brainy people playing with these ideas at a much more in depth level than i could describe. The nexus forum probably has some better discussions on the mater than i could word myself right now.


Will try and gather some more links and resources when i can to chuck in the thread soon to put at least a tiny bit of weight behind it...Would do now but i'm gonna go bed.

Either way, the best way to experiment with consciousness, is to be the experiment....

But as a lot of Zen points out, You can't taste your own tongue and you can't bite your own teeth. There is merit in trying to though i guess .

yeh if we're taking brainy people talking about the pineal gland... i mean, i said it earlier - Descartes. he believed the pineal gland was the link between the physical body and the non-physical consciousness

he wasn't the first, isn't the last

but yeh the last phrase is something i've pretty much always held to, that in attempting to discover the nature of consciousness we are merely attenpting to look into something we're already inside of...

noam wrote:yeh if we're taking brainy people talking about the pineal gland... i mean, i said it earlier - Descartes. he believed the pineal gland was the link between the physical body and the non-physical consciousness

he wasn't the first, isn't the last

but yeh the last phrase is something i've pretty much always held to, that in attempting to discover the nature of consciousness we are merely attenpting to look into something we're already inside of...

Difference now though is those brainy people have ways to measure and test things on the basis of the conscious 'hunch 'so many have had.

and i always try and steer clear of the merely word. nothing is a mere process in the context of the rest of what the inside/outside, is.

A hamster taking a shit is still a universal event (as in, an event taking place in the universe)

The thought/consciousness process it's self is only a mere process if we feel like we're getting no where with it.Which i guess is a subjective thing but i do think there's a certain level of expansion taking place that we sometimes forget to notice the progression of because we're always at the edge of it.

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it"

^ would indicate expansion.Where that leads, we'll be sure to find out/in etc I do think whatever it is we're finding out about ourselves and the universe that contains the our-selves is something we already once knew or experienced first-hand , but in an objectively conscious way, which makes the memory/remembering of it hard.

I do think consciousness is multi layered. The further into the object we dive (simultaneous layers), the less of the subject (individual layers) we have to differentiate between which does make 'it', and lots of things difficult to verbalize . I think there are both 'self-purposeful' limitations routed in our duality based 3d consciousness , but also routes and door ways beyond it.

all of this and more as we steadily travel around our galaxy