Dubstepforum.com

solidus wrote:

OfficialDAPT wrote:Shit dude I feel like we're straight up holding your hand now. If you can't experiment on your own you will never succeed at producing music

Yeh, sorry if it's coming off like that. I understand about the concept of experimentation, but I also know that with anything worth experimenting with there are certain ground rules that cannot be broken. You don't become a chemist and want to experiment with gasoline and decide to run to a gas station with a book of matches. That's what I'm trying to establish.

In the meantime, in between these posts, I am actually messing around with drum patterns, trying to create something for myself. Whether or not it sounds good is TBD.

Lol well I guarantee nothing in Ableton will blow up if you experiment... the worst that can happen is that you have to start a new project because it sounds like shit. Oh and there's no rules when it comes to making music. If it sounds good it is good.

OfficialDAPT wrote:

solidus wrote:

OfficialDAPT wrote:Shit dude I feel like we're straight up holding your hand now. If you can't experiment on your own you will never succeed at producing music

Yeh, sorry if it's coming off like that. I understand about the concept of experimentation, but I also know that with anything worth experimenting with there are certain ground rules that cannot be broken. You don't become a chemist and want to experiment with gasoline and decide to run to a gas station with a book of matches. That's what I'm trying to establish.

In the meantime, in between these posts, I am actually messing around with drum patterns, trying to create something for myself. Whether or not it sounds good is TBD.

Lol well I guarantee nothing in Ableton will blow up if you experiment... the worst that can happen is that you have to start a new project because it sounds like shit. Oh and there's no rules when it comes to making music. If it sounds good it is good.

I hear you.

And that's one of the exact reasons that makes it hard, is I'm not one of the "play it by ear" personality types in anything, I've always been the regimented type that looks for hard-and-fast rules in everything. Oh well, I guess that will have to change pretty quickly.

solidus wrote:

OfficialDAPT wrote:

solidus wrote:

OfficialDAPT wrote:Shit dude I feel like we're straight up holding your hand now. If you can't experiment on your own you will never succeed at producing music

Yeh, sorry if it's coming off like that. I understand about the concept of experimentation, but I also know that with anything worth experimenting with there are certain ground rules that cannot be broken. You don't become a chemist and want to experiment with gasoline and decide to run to a gas station with a book of matches. That's what I'm trying to establish.

In the meantime, in between these posts, I am actually messing around with drum patterns, trying to create something for myself. Whether or not it sounds good is TBD.

Lol well I guarantee nothing in Ableton will blow up if you experiment... the worst that can happen is that you have to start a new project because it sounds like shit. Oh and there's no rules when it comes to making music. If it sounds good it is good.

I hear you.

And that's one of the exact reasons that makes it hard, is I'm not one of the "play it by ear" personality types in anything, I've always been the regimented type that looks for hard-and-fast rules in everything. Oh well, I guess that will have to change pretty quickly.

Why are you making music if you don't like to play it by ear and experiment. That's 90% of producing.
Then

OfficialDAPT wrote:

solidus wrote:

OfficialDAPT wrote:

solidus wrote:

OfficialDAPT wrote:Shit dude I feel like we're straight up holding your hand now. If you can't experiment on your own you will never succeed at producing music

Yeh, sorry if it's coming off like that. I understand about the concept of experimentation, but I also know that with anything worth experimenting with there are certain ground rules that cannot be broken. You don't become a chemist and want to experiment with gasoline and decide to run to a gas station with a book of matches. That's what I'm trying to establish.

In the meantime, in between these posts, I am actually messing around with drum patterns, trying to create something for myself. Whether or not it sounds good is TBD.

Lol well I guarantee nothing in Ableton will blow up if you experiment... the worst that can happen is that you have to start a new project because it sounds like shit. Oh and there's no rules when it comes to making music. If it sounds good it is good.

I hear you.

And that's one of the exact reasons that makes it hard, is I'm not one of the "play it by ear" personality types in anything, I've always been the regimented type that looks for hard-and-fast rules in everything. Oh well, I guess that will have to change pretty quickly.

Why are you making music if you don't like to play it by ear and experiment. That's 90% of producing.
Then

I'm not saying I don't like to play it by ear and experiment, I'm just the personality type that likes to look for set patterns and rules and run by those. It's a personality type. I learned Photoshop to a T by largely dicking around, so I'm not new to experimenting.

Well don't look for patterns and rules and create your own style or you'll be like everyone else producing these day

OfficialDAPT wrote:Well don't look for patterns and rules and create your own style or you'll be like everyone else producing these day

Well, I'll post back when I have some semblance of a coherent piece.

set patterns and rules are going to make your music stale, and frankly it'll become less fun to produced when you're always boxed in by some restrictions you've set. At the very least you're going to want an intro in your track to mix in with if you're looking to DJ them, aside from that there aren't going to really be any rules. You'll develop habits or your go-to way for developing sounds and structures but no one here can really tell you how to go about doing that. I've gained a lot from youtube tutorials, this forum, and general reading around, but nothing has really helped me more than just listening to tunes.

Huts wrote:set patterns and rules are going to make your music stale, and frankly it'll become less fun to produced when you're always boxed in by some restrictions you've set. At the very least you're going to want an intro in your track to mix in with if you're looking to DJ them, aside from that there aren't going to really be any rules. You'll develop habits or your go-to way for developing sounds and structures but no one here can really tell you how to go about doing that. I've gained a lot from youtube tutorials, this forum, and general reading around, but nothing has really helped me more than just listening to tunes.

Huts wrote:set patterns and rules are going to make your music stale

Well yes, and I can see where you're going with that, I was just meaning I've been looking for set patterns and rules so that I can have some beginning into producing.

Once I know how to do basic things and have a good grasp of the concepts, that's when I can start bending and shifting the ideas to fit what I want to do, but if I have no earthly clue of what to do, I'll simply make nonsense and not know any better.

Does that make any bit of sense as to why I was talking about rules and patterns?

Make nonsense and not know any better then, you might stumble upon something awesome

solidus wrote:

Huts wrote:set patterns and rules are going to make your music stale

Well yes, and I can see where you're going with that, I was just meaning I've been looking for set patterns and rules so that I can have some beginning into producing.

Once I know how to do basic things and have a good grasp of the concepts, that's when I can start bending and shifting the ideas to fit what I want to do, but if I have no earthly clue of what to do, I'll simply make nonsense and not know any better.

Does that make any bit of sense as to why I was talking about rules and patterns?

Oh I completely understand where you're coming from, I'm exactly the same way in everything new I try. However I wish I would have let myself be free when I started making music because now I'm locked into habits that I actively got to try and correct whenever I sit down and attempt to make a tune. You know in kindergarten during art time when your teachers told you there is no such thing as a 'bad' drawing, I think the same applies here. Your sounds and structure don't have to fit any mold to sound good, you'll know just from listening to music and DJing what does and doesn't work. Not following tutorials/guides gives you the ability to be 'wrong' without feeling like you are. I think a bit of ignorance is a great thing when trying to be creative, turn your flaws into a new genre

solidus wrote:

OfficialDAPT wrote:

wub wrote:

solidus wrote:So does this stuff get easier as I go (is it just a steep learning curve)?

It'll takes 10,000 hours to become a master at something.

So that's approx 3hrs a day for 10yrs.

How far up your ass did you have to dig for that statistic?

I'm assuming pretty far, but that's just me.

Let's hope that's a bit on the generous side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_%28book%29

repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours.

Y'all should try expanding your horizons a bit before dismissing folk that are trying to help.

solidus wrote:

Is that the correct interpretation of

140bpm
Kick on the 1 and the 9
Snare on the 5 and the 13
Hats on the 1, 3, 5, 7, etc

?

I can't understand how you're still asking these questions after I posted that sound on sound article.
It had pictures of everything.

solidus wrote:

wub wrote:Keep them killed for the first bit of the mid range noises from Massive, then maybe add the risers back end and have the drums gradually return for 4 bars before having the whole tune play out.

So gradually fade the drums back in?

Also, what is the general production structure of the early dubstep? I'm wanting to produce that style as I enjoy the sound more. Examples being stuff along the likes of Skream's Bahl Fwd and Benga's Middle Man.

I think you gotte take a step back and just start to build a groove that you enjoy, put a melody over it and a bassline and let your tracks evolve from there, there is no set structure for any song (unless major commercial I guess). So just start and make your own music It'll take a while before you actually start realizing your songs are not up to standard, and then a few years of you trying to get to that standard, and at the end you might be satisfied with one or two songs

Huts wrote: Oh I completely understand where you're coming from, I'm exactly the same way in everything new I try. However I wish I would have let myself be free when I started making music because now I'm locked into habits that I actively got to try and correct whenever I sit down and attempt to make a tune. You know in kindergarten during art time when your teachers told you there is no such thing as a 'bad' drawing, I think the same applies here. Your sounds and structure don't have to fit any mold to sound good, you'll know just from listening to music and DJing what does and doesn't work. Not following tutorials/guides gives you the ability to be 'wrong' without feeling like you are. I think a bit of ignorance is a great thing when trying to be creative, turn your flaws into a new genre

Yeah, I've started working, I guess I'll just try to now work by hit-or-miss on a bassline to fit the drum pattern I've worked out (it's different in composition than the examples I was originally told about). Maybe a combo of beating my head on the floor a few times in a row and some good Portuguese liqueur have got some semblance of creative element about me right now. I do see what you mean about improvisation and learn-by-doing approach, I just had to be coached through the first step. Although I think it'll be a while before I can see my production training wheels being kicked off.

Electric_Head wrote:I can't understand how you're still asking these questions after I posted that sound on sound article.
It had pictures of everything.

I've got it now, refer to above statement. Now that I've got the 1/10th of a somewhat idea of what to do, I don't have to be coached through every step of the process. Once the ball gets rolling it takes a lot less effort, and my "baby steps" phase ended yesterday. Not that that means I have a tremendous idea of what I'm doing, but the basics I can work on by myself. And I sure do like me some pictures. It was a good article, thanks.

And if/when I actually know what I'm doing, do me a favor and remind me of this so I can have a laugh at myself.

wub wrote:Y'all should try expanding your horizons a bit before dismissing folk that are trying to help.

You know I was just dickin' around, I've heard the 10000 hour rule before but I still kind of think it's somewhat just speculation.

wub wrote:140bpm
Kick on the 1 and the 9
Snare on the 5 and the 13
Hats on the 1, 3, 5, 7, etc

Basic Dubstep pattern right there. Adjust to taste.

Maybe for 70 bpm. For 140 Kick on 1 and snare on 9.

Eridu wrote:

wub wrote:140bpm
Kick on the 1 and the 9
Snare on the 5 and the 13
Hats on the 1, 3, 5, 7, etc

Basic Dubstep pattern right there. Adjust to taste.

Maybe for 70 bpm. For 140 Kick on 1 and snare on 9.

What is the relationship between 70 and 140 for dubstep? I always knew it would work for beatmatching, but what is the significance of the half-tempo? Just curious.

Dubstep uses halftime drum patterns so they are at 140 but a normal time pattern at 70 would sound the same

Okay, now that I have a drum pattern drawn out to around 15-16 bars or such and some white noise buildups (created with the help of YouTube videos and the good old fashioned experimenting and playing by ear), I need guidance on how to create a particular style of sound in Massive.

I'm looking for the good old fashioned deep dubstep sound. Skream, Benga, and Mala's original sound. I don't need an exact step by step list of how to make it, but I need a general process gist of it.

Why am I not going on YouTube and looking for the same thing? Because I have been, and every Massive tutorial and presets to be retooled end up making a sound that sounds somewhat in between an amplified chainsaw and the sound you'd get from throwing a box of roofing nails into a woodchipper.

Links to tutorials would work nicely too.