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gwa wrote:

southstar wrote:Animals don't have self-conciousness, everthing they do is based purely off instinct. Thats the difference...

and what about disabled people?

Well, they're called vegetables for a reason, right? Have at it!

wolf89 wrote:Not quite though Gwa. Eating meat you aren't doing it because you enjoy hurting something you're doing it because you like eating the meat. It's different from if you were just hurting an animal because you got off on the pain you caused.

sorry, if someone just wanted to cause pain they'd give em a bunch of 5's, sex is a pleasureable act!

If you eat meat your a pedophile, right?

gwa wrote:so my point is basically, who gave us the right to take the animals life?

i'm not trying to convert anyone, i'm just highlighting the spiritual side of things.

Define 'spiritual'? Because creationists are trying to 'highlight the spiritual side of things' too when they bring up the Bible in a discussions about evolution.

Terpit wrote:If you eat meat your a pedophile, right?

Naw, my love for underage poon has nothing to do with my love of steak.

jesus christ you're dumb aren't you

I eat meat.

I agree that we should eat less meat, but I really don't see a problem with raising and killing an animal for the purposes of eating its meat. All animals die - most wild animals die long deaths steeped in suffering - either they get a terminal disease and waste away or they become too old to find food and starve to death. Most lives are spent desperately scrabbling for food - there aren't many fat animals in the wild, they struggle to get "enough"... life on a farm is luxurious by comparison, if short. But we're also one of the few animals that actually tries to stop fellow members of our species from dying when they're sick/injured - even a herd of elephants, incredibly emotionally intelligent animals, will abandon a relative that can't keep up... to suggest that the morality of killing extends any further than our own brains is probably a bit fanciful. i.e. If we choose not to kill animals it's to make ourselves happy, it's nothing to do with the animal's experience... the animal has no concept of another species being "nice" to it.

But yeah, farming is a massive issue. I've got a lot of love for farming - it's done amazing things for our society. It's the reason why we're genetically resistant to diseases like smallpox and it's almost certainly the reason why we've made it through centuries of incredibly harsh conditions... raising our kids on cows milk and keeping cured meats have seen us through some incredibly tough times in the past.. but with 7 billion people on Earth, we do need to look at less damaging ways to farm. We should probably try and move back to the idea that meat is a luxury ingredient to be used once or twice a week rather than the staple we plan all our meals around.

Everyone should have a go at hunting/butchery at some point as well... people should be aware of where their meat comes from; it's a little concerning that so many people go their entire lives without seeing a live chicken... it's no wonder we're confused.

You sound like an absolute lunatic gwa

gwa wrote:so my point is basically, who gave us the right to take the animals life?

i'm not trying to convert anyone, i'm just highlighting the spiritual side of things.

The same one that gave a Lion free reign to tear your balls off and feast on your corpse or a bear to eat your kid if he walks into his den.

Animals are killed for alot of other things aswell, just how it goes.

You could have been a vegan 3000 years ago if you felt like it but clearly there is something right about it as here we sit in 2012 still eating meat.

Fishes are also no more harmed or alive than mammals so I find prespetarians the most odd of all.

gwa wrote:jesus christ you're dumb aren't you

Define 'spiritual' you troglodyte. Tell us why your spiritual takes precedent over other people's logic.

Genevieve wrote:

gwa wrote:so my point is basically, who gave us the right to take the animals life?

i'm not trying to convert anyone, i'm just highlighting the spiritual side of things.

Define 'spiritual'? Because creationists are trying to 'highlight the spiritual side of things' too when they bring up the Bible in a discussions about evolution.

that we are all have as much right to be on this planet as anything else?

if the day comes and i eat meat then i'll probably kill my mates dog and chomp on that.

if he asks why then i'll just say i'm above it in the food chain.

You keep on taking everything to the extreme in a weak attempt to prove your point (whatever that is).

magma wrote: Everyone should have a go at hunting/butchery at some point as well... people should be aware of where their meat comes from; it's a little concerning that so many people go their entire lives without seeing a live chicken... it's no wonder we're confused.

Yeah that's what I was saying. I got thinking about it after one my housemates at uni started freaking out when I was talking about my mate killing a chicken (to eat, nothing weird going on or anything) despite the fact she'd just eaten chicken for dinner. I mean come on if you're so horrified at the thought of a chicken dying stop eating it for fuck's sake.

wolf89 wrote:

magma wrote: Everyone should have a go at hunting/butchery at some point as well... people should be aware of where their meat comes from; it's a little concerning that so many people go their entire lives without seeing a live chicken... it's no wonder we're confused.

Yeah that's what I was saying. I got thinking about it after one my housemates at uni started freaking out when I was talking about my mate killing a chicken (to eat, nothing weird going on or anything) despite the fact she'd just eaten chicken for dinner. I mean come on if you're so horrified at the thought of a chicken dying stop eating it for fuck's sake.

Same concept as not letting people smoke if they cant skin up. i like it.

Terpit wrote:You keep on taking everything to the extreme in a weak attempt to prove your point (whatever that is).

i'm giving you logical answers

I have accepted that we kill animals to eat. I see animals and humans on a completely different playing field. What I hate most though are meat eaters who say it's wrong for the vietnamese to eat dogs or the japenese to eat dolphins. It's the exact same as eating a pig or a cow. If you are happy to eat pigs, cows, sheep and chickens you should never draw a line under eating any other animal on this planet. It's only morally fair.

gwa wrote:

Genevieve wrote:

gwa wrote:so my point is basically, who gave us the right to take the animals life?

i'm not trying to convert anyone, i'm just highlighting the spiritual side of things.

Define 'spiritual'? Because creationists are trying to 'highlight the spiritual side of things' too when they bring up the Bible in a discussions about evolution.

that we are all have as much right to be on this planet as anything else?

That's not a definition of 'spirituality' this is you making a subjective judgement saying that we don't have some sort of 'right' to eat other animals without any further justification on WHY we don't have that right.

And that whole premise is flawed because the idea of a 'right' is human construct and you're trying to apply a human construct to a non-human organism.

Similarly, I could ask you who took our right to eat other animals? See? Stupid question right? Just as stupid of a question of 'who gave us the right to eat animals' or 'who gave us a right to farm plants'.

Johnlenham wrote:

gwa wrote:so my point is basically, who gave us the right to take the animals life?

i'm not trying to convert anyone, i'm just highlighting the spiritual side of things.

The same one that gave a Lion free reign to tear your balls off and feast on your corpse or a bear to eat your kid if he walks into his den.

Animals are killed for alot of other things aswell, just how it goes.

You could have been a vegan 3000 years ago if you felt like it but clearly there is something right about it as here we sit in 2012 still eating meat.

Fishes are also no more harmed or alive than mammals so I find prespetarians the most odd of all.

go back to my point about being more consciously advanced that we don't have to eat it.

gnome wrote:I have accepted that we kill animals to eat. I see animals and humans on a completely different playing field. What I hate most though are meat eaters who say it's wrong for the vietnamese to eat dogs or the japenese to eat dolphins. It's the exact same as eating a pig or a cow. If you are happy to eat pigs, cows, sheep and chickens you should never draw a line under eating any other animal on this planet. It's only morally fair.

I dont think it is the same, people dont live with cows and sheep in their houses and bond with them emotionally. I don't care what people in other countries get up to but the thought of having to eat cat myself would make me sick

gnome wrote:I have accepted that we kill animals to eat. I see animals and humans on a completely different playing field. What I hate most though are meat eaters who say it's wrong for the vietnamese to eat dogs or the japenese to eat dolphins. It's the exact same as eating a pig or a cow. If you are happy to eat pigs, cows, sheep and chickens you should never draw a line under eating any other animal on this planet. It's only morally fair.

I dunno there are certain animals that I prefer alive so would kill for food unless I was starving or something. But that's my choice so I'm not gonna force it on other people. Plus I wouldn't eat something that was really endangered I'd feel like a bit of a dick