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College is kind of a joke these days. Or at least the way it's being sold to people is... I work for one... in my experience many young people who attend college believe that it's a 5-6 year (that's the average now for a bachelors) beer fueled vacation, at the end of which they are handed a coupon for a job of their choice, a new car and a house. From the talk I've heard in my classrooms this is literally what students believe. The new mantra is "Cs get degrees" as if the degree is some fucking Willy Wonka golden ticket. These kids don't understand that they need to actively make something of themselves rather than just sneak by...every asshole the government will give a loan to can find a college that will graduate them. The degree means almost nothing if you don't have a lot of other things to back it up. People with the above attitude don't get any of that stuff, they get to start off their adult lives with what equates to a home mortgage and the inability to land a job because they don't look any different to employers than the thousands of other average people with a bachelors in business from State U.

Based on my experience if I was a business owner hiring employees, I wouldn't automatically put any stock in a persons college degree. They let people in and then graduate people who have little ability to write a sentence, read something with an analytical eye or have any problem solving abilities. Most of the people that graduate from college are no more employable than when they entered IMHO. This is due to a variety of factors, but unrealistic (or delusional) expectations and a sense of entitlement on the part of students is a major factor among them.

EDIT: The point of this is...if you are going to go to college, but mostly fuck off trying to make music and make "the scene"...you might as well not go and put all your energy into the music. I know a lot of guys (and a few girls) who went to college as a "back up plan" took out extra loan money for gear. They ended up with some generic degree that can't use because they only put in just enough effort to get it (employers look at your grades!) and the best any of them did music wise was to become famous with in the state as a DJ/producer and that is nowhere near enough to pay the bills.

lol thats pretty much what im doing atm cant let go of one or the other

to be fair though, i do take my degree seriously. and productions just a genuine addiction by this point

JizzMan wrote:lol thats pretty much what im doing atm cant let go of one or the other

to be fair though, i do take my degree seriously. and productions just a genuine addiction by this point

Well man, I'd say worry about making yourself employable first and foremost. I spent a lot of time making connections and building my resume. I don't make a ton of money, but I have a job I can live on, buy gear on and have time to work on music.

fragments wrote:College is kind of a joke these days. Or at least the way it's being sold to people is... I work for one... in my experience many young people who attend college believe that it's a 5-6 year (that's the average now for a bachelors) beer fueled vacation, at the end of which they are handed a coupon for a job of their choice, a new car and a house. From the talk I've heard in my classrooms this is literally what students believe. The new mantra is "Cs get degrees" as if the degree is some fucking Willy Wonka golden ticket. These kids don't understand that they need to actively make something of themselves rather than just sneak by...every asshole the government will give a loan to can find a college that will graduate them. The degree means almost nothing if you don't have a lot of other things to back it up. People with the above attitude don't get any of that stuff, they get to start off their adult lives with what equates to a home mortgage and the inability to land a job because they don't look any different to employers than the thousands of other average people with a bachelors in business from State U.

Based on my experience if I was a business owner hiring employees, I wouldn't automatically put any stock in a persons college degree. They let people in and then graduate people who have little ability to write a sentence, read something with an analytical eye or have any problem solving abilities. Most of the people that graduate from college are no more employable than when they entered IMHO. This is due to a variety of factors, but unrealistic (or delusional) expectations and a sense of entitlement on the part of students is a major factor among them.

Great post.


As someone who manages a team and has to hire people, the current global recession has driven more people into college education as a stop gap so they can still do something whilst the market recovers.

Only problem is that the market still hasn't recovered significantly, and now there is a larger number of college/university graduates with a degree applying for a smaller number of jobs, so the degree itself is more devalued than it was 5/10yrs ago (when I graduated).

From my point of view, I've got so many more applicants per job posting that a simple bachelors degree isn't sufficient anymore, especially as it usually comes with no job experience or real world know-how outside of full time education. Last guy I hired had bachelors, masters and two years relevant experience in the sector. As an employer, that's what I look for now, even for the more entry level roles, because the choice is there.

My insane past has kinda fucked me in the job market. I went to school but my record over shadows that. I live in an econically depressed area and I can't even get a shit job.
I make music.

wub wrote:

fragments wrote:College is kind of a joke these days. Or at least the way it's being sold to people is... I work for one... in my experience many young people who attend college believe that it's a 5-6 year (that's the average now for a bachelors) beer fueled vacation, at the end of which they are handed a coupon for a job of their choice, a new car and a house. From the talk I've heard in my classrooms this is literally what students believe. The new mantra is "Cs get degrees" as if the degree is some fucking Willy Wonka golden ticket. These kids don't understand that they need to actively make something of themselves rather than just sneak by...every asshole the government will give a loan to can find a college that will graduate them. The degree means almost nothing if you don't have a lot of other things to back it up. People with the above attitude don't get any of that stuff, they get to start off their adult lives with what equates to a home mortgage and the inability to land a job because they don't look any different to employers than the thousands of other average people with a bachelors in business from State U.

Based on my experience if I was a business owner hiring employees, I wouldn't automatically put any stock in a persons college degree. They let people in and then graduate people who have little ability to write a sentence, read something with an analytical eye or have any problem solving abilities. Most of the people that graduate from college are no more employable than when they entered IMHO. This is due to a variety of factors, but unrealistic (or delusional) expectations and a sense of entitlement on the part of students is a major factor among them.

Great post.


As someone who manages a team and has to hire people, the current global recession has driven more people into college education as a stop gap so they can still do something whilst the market recovers.

Only problem is that the market still hasn't recovered significantly, and now there is a larger number of college/university graduates with a degree applying for a smaller number of jobs, so the degree itself is more devalued than it was 5/10yrs ago (when I graduated).

From my point of view, I've got so many more applicants per job posting that a simple bachelors degree isn't sufficient anymore, especially as it usually comes with no job experience or real world know-how outside of full time education. Last guy I hired had bachelors, masters and two years relevant experience in the sector. As an employer, that's what I look for now, even for the more entry level roles, because the choice is there.

Thanks. I like to spread the word anonymously when I can.

Let's also remember, at least in the US, that the government is partially to blame for "flooding the market" as well. Not that people don't deserve an education, but as student loans became more and more available people choose college over vocational training as there was much more room for upward mobility (vocationally, unless opening one's own business, there is much less room for that). As wub points out, this was fine when there were plenty of jobs. But I simply don't understand why anyone would get a generic business degree these days. Back to my point, the higher education system saw all this "free" money and started letting in everyone who could pay. But with the influx of less prepared and under prepared students, who traditionally may have gone the vocational route, pursuing liberal arts degrees the system lowered it's standards. And by present day they've been lowered a lot. In all honesty, despite my efforts, I should probably be giving less 50% of my students a C or above. But I can't fail that many people and keep my job. It's not talked about, but if part time faculty teaching entry level courses don't "keep their numbers up" they won't be given classes the next semester. As we work on a semester by semester basis, they don't even have to fire us, they simply say the didn't have enough classes (this becomes somewhat harder when dealing with senior adjuncts, but not much).

Universities look at students as customers now and they are selling snake oil. The students feel entitled, but because a combination of ignorance, youth and simple not giving any fucks because they've always been handed shit in some form or another, they are happy as long as they get their "golden ticket" degree. At this point many general education courses don't even require knowledge of the subject to teach, as the system likes instructors who read a power point in front of 400 people and then upload it to a "learning space" after class, meanwhile the test is basically a reverse version of the power point, thus the hardest thing students have to do is memorize some facts. And because of massive grade curving and unrealistic weighting of easy assignments it takes virtually no effort to get a C.

Not to mention the fact that because none of these people are employable or because there are so many more qualified and experienced people on the job market there are tons of people with massive debt who can't pay it. The Student Loan bubble is about to ass rape the economy. I'm not an economist and typically don't like ideas like this...but I think the government needs to just erase some of this debt and call it a day. I only owe a meager 13,000 dollars after two degrees, so this doesn't even benefit that greatly when the average is probably over 100,000 USD.

into the grave, in the long run

fragments wrote:The Student Loan bubble is about to ass rape the economy. I'm not an economist and typically don't like ideas like this...but I think the government needs to just erase some of this debt and call it a day. I only owe a meager 13,000 dollars after two degrees, so this doesn't even benefit that greatly when the average is probably over 100,000 USD.

I've saved like a hermit since moving to Spain and am down to my last £1000 or so to pay off my initial of £12k ($19k), and that was just after a single Bachelors degree program...$100k is crazy money.

This thread turned from something nice, to something incredibly beautiful.

Very nice Fragments and Wub! Couldn't agree more with both of you, both fascinating posts.

That was to make a point thank you' but fine have it your way'

Re-post- Simply put I'm tired of hearing all of the same exact sounds in a lot of the same tunes. so I've decided to branch out and start making my own sounds instead of listening to regurgitated. stuff. I've learned a lot by doing so which is nice. Helping behind the scenes isn't so bad either. I don't know it's more of a mutual thing, I love complexity so that's where I've decided to head with sounds.

To hell and back and making sure enough carnage is caused on the way!

wub wrote:

fragments wrote:The Student Loan bubble is about to ass rape the economy. I'm not an economist and typically don't like ideas like this...but I think the government needs to just erase some of this debt and call it a day. I only owe a meager 13,000 dollars after two degrees, so this doesn't even benefit that greatly when the average is probably over 100,000 USD.

I've saved like a hermit since moving to Spain and am down to my last £1000 or so to pay off my initial of £12k ($19k), and that was just after a single Bachelors degree program...$100k is crazy money.

19K would be like one year at an OK school in the US. I teach at the most expensive state uni in Ohio and it costs the average student 27K per year and I'm pretty sure they can get a max of 36 credits over fall and spring for that cost.

100k is crazy money? I have a friend pursuing his PhD in psychiatry and he owed like a quarter million last I checked. But he went through two graduate programs with no assistantships I'm aware of. And some of it is owed to predatory lenders. He is fucked. Plain and simple.